E-mail, this list, and the SCA...

Pug pug at arlut.utexas.edu
Tue Feb 28 11:20:11 PST 1995

Good Morning,

  Well I had decided that this was a personal matter, and was going to
  keep my mouth shut until this series of messages were posted. Now I
  will be posting as list maintainer as well as a system administrator
  on the net, and try to keep all personal associations seperate. When
  dealing with official dealings, it is always best to seperate your two
  worlds. Kings, Barons, royalty, and officials alike, should all have
  this abililty in order to do their job well.

  This message will be broken into 3 parts to respond to messages posted
  on the list. The person being responded to will be listed at the top of
  each section.

Viscount Galen of Bristol stated:
>I really hate to do this, but I don't feel like I have much alternative.

  Then you shouldn't have done it, IMHO. It's always best not to do
  something you hate.

>If anyone reading this should ever in the future receive unsolicited e-mail
>from Michael Litchfield that makes use of profane language and/or is unduly
>hostile, offensive or insulting in its tone or language, please contact me.

  Isn't it truly easier to ignore someone than to make a public
  lynching out of something that does not need to be?
  One may use a filter, if they do not wish to recieve email from
  Litch. This is done via a .forward. One would look as simple as thus:

| filter

  in .elm/filter-rules, you could have a single rule:

if (from = "litch") then delete

  This is assuming that your system has `elm` installed. There are also
  ways of doing this via `procmail`, as well as a number of other ways. If
  you wish to go this route, and have problems achieving these means,
  please contact me personally, not publicly on the list, and I will do
  all in my means, including contacting your local system administrator
  to assist you towards this goal.

  If you have problems with an individual member of this list, you
  should contact me, as the list maintainer to try to resolve the
  problem. A first offense, I will not do anything about. Repeated
  offenses, I will take action. If you do not feel that my actions are
  suited enough for you, and wish to take this up with the Crown or my
  governing Baron Don Jeremy James Scurlock and Baronness Countess
  Kassandra NickKraken, feel free to do so, since that is always your
  correct course of action. A public display is not only inappropriate,
  but what could be considered "poisonous politics".

>I know that I have received such e-mail, and so have others.  I am curious to
>know if he just picks on the nobility (in which case I can take it; I've just
>oiled my "delete" key)

  This is the correct way to deal with unsolicited mail. If you want to
  ensure you never get it, there is only one way. Leave the net. There
  are rude and unwanted people out there, and this is a public list,
  and as far as I know, not even an official extension of the SCA. I
  will not verify that each and every person on it is a member of the
  Society, or even interested in the Society, and do not feel that is
  even appropriate. I will deal with matters that involve public
  discourteousy and abuse on this list though. How we deal with people
  at events that we do not wish to associate with, is to ignore them,
  that can be done on the net as well.

>or if others also suffer his abuse.  If anyone has
>suffered such abuse in the past, please don't let it affect you.  The SCA is a
>game in which we should be safe from such hostility.  Unfortunately, our best
>is all we can do.

  This I whole hardly agree with. You should not let it affect you. It
  is simple enough to ingore people, as well, it is easier to avoid

>The notes I received claimed to be defending people from having to fear that I
>might tease their imperfect use of language as I teased my excellent good
>friend Mordraut.  I found his technique to be most curious.

  If you realized that people, even ones on this list, had teased
  someone on this list about their spelling/grammar, would you find this
  offensive? I know I would. I also know via discussion with members of
  this list, that Litch himself has been confronted with the fact that
  his has mistyped his own name. I find it terrible that someone would
  do this. Not everyone is perfect, especially in spelling/grammar/typing,
  least of all myself.

>A sample follows.  It is not pleasant, even after I have deleted the

  It is also completely and utterly uncalled for for you to post this to
  the list. Private email, should not EVER be reposted to the list,
  or any other public forum, without first asking the author of the
  message. This is even covered in the Rialto FAQ, and those of you on
  the Rialto should know better. You, being a Viscount, should know that
  you should never disclose something told you in private, without
  atleast discussing it with the other party involved. As well, as a
  Viscount, you should know that making a strictly personal matter
  public, is in poor taste and discourteous. I have already received
  several complaints from members of this list, unassociated with this
  matter, in regards to being forced into private matters of individuals.

  As well, this has been taken out of context, and without full context,
  we can not even begin to form a just or even reasonable opinion of the

  If you have discussed this with Litch, then my humble apologies and
  sincerest regrets for even mentioning this etiquette point.

[ private email deleted ]

>It is my opinion that no one in the SCA should be subject to such discourteous
>treatment; not even us pompous goons.

  It is my opinion that no one in the real world should die, does that
  mean it is going to come to pass? Not everyone in the world, even in
  the Society, is polite and courteous.

>Ldy. Isabella de Foscari stated:

>I myself have received rude e-mail from Litch.  When I replied to an 
>announcement that feast reservations should be sent for Queen's, I didn't 
>not realize that they went to the mailer.  I received a message from Litch 
>saying that "this was rude and ignorant."  I had a house full of guest who 
>were on those reservations who were also outraged.  When I sent an apology, 
>I was told to "be thankful for such helpful instruction" and to "stop" my 

  Although Litch can be harsh and grating, have you done it again? Have
  you replied privately to the list? Will you think twice about it next
  time? I don't agree with Litch's approach, but it is effective.

>I e-mailed Pug on this matter hoping that since he was the owner that he 
>would do something about it.  He said that Litch was Litch and that nothing 
>could be done.

  I still feel this way, due to the fact, that although we are in the
  Society, everyone has their chance to voice their opinion, especially
  in private. If you do not find this opinion, or statement of it, to
  be tasteful, ignore it.  It is easy enough to do in an electronic
  world especially, as shown above.

>I have stop opening any mail with Litch's name on it and 
>will not respond to him.

  Then why do you feel that you had to even bring this up yet again? If
  you want him to go away, ignore him. That is always the best way to
  get rid of a pest on the net.

>I feel that we should come together on this.  He 
>does not own this mailer and there are by far more of us using it than him!  
>Why should the minority make it unpleasant for the majority?

  Whole scale censorship, as well as bannishment? That is what you are
  asking for. I do not see any need for this, and this being a public
  forum, will not support it, or enforce it. As well, I will fight as
  long and as far as possible to keep this from happening.

>meadhbh stated
>This is a public thank you!!!!!!  If there is anything I can help you with,
>please e-mail me at your earliest convenience.  I have sent you some infor
>privately.  you may do what you wish with it.  i hope it helps.  

  Please remember that private email is just that. This is a matter that
  even those on the net would not do without some repercussion. As well,
  as stated to Viscount Galen, you must ask permission of the author before
  posting, or even relaying, private correspondences that you did not


  Now onto more personal topics.

  At an event this last weekend, this specifically was brought to Litch at
  an event, and was dealt with quite poorly on several points. These
  consist of the following in my opinion:

  1) Bringing Mundane problems to an Event. This requires individuals to
     step out of persona and it ruins the enjoyment of the event for all
     involved. Even those who shouldn't have been were dragged into due
     to the discussion taking place at different locations, even at the bon
     fire at dawn on Sunday.

  2) When a nobility confronts a member of the populace in the presence
     of two knights, are the two knights to be impartial parties? This
     would make sense to me since they are there to not only defend the
     noble, but to ensure that nothing questionable occurs. If this is
     the case, then atleast one of the knights present should have not
     been there. He was the Lord of one of the Ladies making the claim,
     and thus it is truly difficult for him to be impartial.

  3) No member of the Society has the right to tell another member to
     seek professional help for being able to draw clear lines between
     his different aspects of life. The Society is built on being able
     to leave your Mundane aspects at home, and accept an alternate
     persona while at SCA events. I know that I for one am able to draw
     the line between work, social life, SCA and the net in my life. Is
     everything that happens between 2 individuals of the SCA to be
     considered the SCA? I know me and my lady are not part of the SCA
     just because we are together when we are at home.

  I hope that this discussion will not continue on this list due to the
  fact that this is a personal matter, and not a place for a public
  lynching of any individual. If it is required I will take steps
  towards insuring that personal matters are not voiced on the Ansteorra
  mailing list.


Phelim Uhtred Gervase

Richard Bainter          Mundanely     |    System Analyst        - OMG/CSD
Pug                      Generally     |    Applied Research Labs - U.Texas
 pug at arlut.utexas.edu  |  pug at bga.com  |  pug at eden.com  |  {any user}@pug.net
Note: The views may not reflect my employers, or even my own for that matter.

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