[Ansteorra] Fee Increase and other Business...

[Lisa Sawyer]

I understand that we all have to budget, but it is still the same amount of
money no matter what you call it. If you have to budget $35 to buy an annual
membership or $3 per event, that is part of the budget for participating in
this organization. If that budget goes up to $38 and $5, it isn't that
significant of an increase.

We all have to pay the Society to cover the overhead costs...insurance,
paperwork, rent for the offices, salaries for staff, etc. Yes, the local
group has insurance for the site but the Society as a whole has insurance
(because the Society itself can be sued, not just the local group). Whether
you pay an annual membership or an additional per event fee, you are still
contributing to this overhead to run the Society.

And while we are discussing the NMS fee as being a deterrent for newcomers,
there are many people who have been playing for years who do not become paid
members and pay the extra fee to help keep the Society running. I know that
for several years when I was inactive, I paid the NMS fee because it only
came to about $9 a year. I saw it as a contribution to keep the Society
going until I was ready to come back.

I used insurance as an example of one of the overhead items. Having been the
victim of a frivolous lawsuit, I'm painfully aware of who can get sued and
what insurance covers what. Luckily, the suit against me was dropped almost
immediately as frivolous and they realized I had no money or insurance to
get money from. Most of us are familiar with some of the bigger lawsuits
that have been filed against the Society as a whole so I'm not going to go
into that. That liability insurance policy isn't cheap. It is completely
different from the one that a group needs for an event. If someone attends
an event and gets hurt, there is nothing to keep them from suing the local
organization, the kingdom, the society, AND the owners of the land where the
incident happened. They will go after whoever has the biggest pockets.
Whether they have a case or not does not necessarily mean they won't sue.

The main point is that there are overhead expenses to running this
organization at the level where they cannot collect revenue directly from
individuals other than a membership fee. I believe the anniversary events
might have a profit sharing system where a portion goes to the society but
that is only every five years. That was the whole reason Pay to Play was
started. We need to finance the Society as a whole otherwise it will go away
and then we lose our infrastructure. It is a reality.

So, your mileage may vary. We need to support the Society as well as our
local groups and Kingdom. If someone can think of a better way than Pay to
Play, please let us know.

Again, your mileage may vary,
Ysabeau
On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 1:47 PM, ld.blackmoon <ld.blackmoon at cox.net> wrote:

> greetings
>
> one thing to be careful of though,  is again " perception " .
> many borderline members  ( those with low incomes or higher expenses ) who
> can barely afford a membership , and then are only able to afford a few
> events each year ( forget completely going to any war ) ( and the number of
> events is already shrinking ) may see the $15.00 site fee, and not notice
> the $ 5.00 discount for showing proof of membership.
> and will just not plan on going to that event because it puts it outside
> their budget .
> when you already have to plan your event budget as , gas to and from, 1
> site fee, 1  can of soup, 1 loaf of bread, and 1 package of hotdogs, and a
> jug of home made tea, or water  , ( because the $8.00 for feast in adition ,
> to everything else , is just more than you can afford.)
> i used to play over all of northern region, as well as central and southern
> region , even made pensic a couple times, but as expenses have gone up, and
> income has not, i no longer get to go to events in many places, so far , i
> have not even been able to attend an event by our newst northern barony,
> even though i know there are some very nice people there .
>
>
> Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun
> Arthur
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donnchadh Beag mac Griogair" <
> donnchadh at cornelius.norman.ok.us>
> To: "Jay Rudin" <rudin at ev1.net>; "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <
> ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 12:55 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Fee Increase and other Business...
>
>
>   On 2/18/2010 12:40 PM, Jay Rudin wrote:
>>
>>> Ysabeau wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> We could have two fee structures, one for non-members and one for
>>>> members.
>>>> If you are a member, you get a $5 discount. I've seen that work
>>>> successfully
>>>> with other groups (why didn't I think of that before?!?!?). One of the
>>>> benefits of membership is discounted event fees. It is a perception
>>>> thing.
>>>> The money going in the bank is the same either way, it is just how you
>>>> present it.
>>>>
>>>> We can certainly do this, but it's more than a perception thing.  The
>>> money goes into two different banks.  The NMS belongs to the Corporation,
>>> and is sent to California.  The site fee goes to the sponsoring branch(es),
>>> and stays in Texas and Oklahoma.
>>>
>>> Your proposal is quite legal, but is functionally equivalent to saying
>>> the local branches will pay the NMS for everybody.  Any local branch that's
>>> making a lot of money every year might legitimately consider this. But those
>>> breaking even or losing money probably shouldn't.
>>>
>>> Robin of Gilwell / Jay Rudin
>>>
>>>
>>> What she's talking about is really only a semantic difference, but one
>> that is much more appealing to new comers.
>>
>> For example, lets say right now you have a site fee of $10 and a $5 NMS
>> charge.  A member gives the gate worker $10.  A non-member gives the
>> gate worker $15 and later the group sends off $5 of that to corporate
>> (actually it goes to Kingdom and they send it on to corporate).
>>
>> What Ysabeau is suggesting is that for the same event we would post a
>> site fee of $15 and a $5 member discount.  A member still gives the gate
>> worker $10.  A non-member still gives the non-member still gives the
>> gate worker $15 and later the group sends off $5 of that to corporate.
>>
>> The only difference is that instead of a non-member feeling like they're
>> being penalized with a surcharge, they see that there is a bonus to
>> becoming a member.
>>
>> Donnchadh
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