[Ansteorra] Fee Increase and other Business...

[Donnchadh Beag mac Griogair]

I just had a thought as to why people may differ in considering it 
charging extra vs a discount.  It's all a matter of reference.  If you 
ask a physicist how fast a celestial body is moving through space, the 
first question they're going to ask, is "in reference to what?"  Without 
a point of reference, you can't tell what change is happening.  For a 
lot of people in this discussion, their point of reference is prices 
prior to NMS being instated, so to them it's obviously charging extra.  
However; a newcomer doesn't have that point of reference.  To them they 
start out paying the higher price, and once they become a member then 
they pay the lower, or discounted, price.  Again, mathematically it is 
the same whatever you call it.  You're quite correct saying two 
statements are emotionally different, that has been my whole point.  
Given that they're mathematically the same, just from two different 
reference points, I'd rather use the one that is more emotionally 
welcoming to newcomers.

When you only consider your own point of reference the one Truth, then 
you can no longer have an effective discussion with someone looking at 
the issue from another point of reference.  And that is where most 
discussions break down.

Donnchadh

On 2/19/2010 1:54 AM, Robert Fitzmorgan wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 1:01 AM, Donnchadh Beag mac Griogair<
> donnchadh at cornelius.norman.ok.us>  wrote:
>
>    
>> I really fail to see the difference between a non-member surcharge, and a
>> member discount.  Either way, it's $5 I don't have to pay if I'm a member,
>> or that I do have to pay if I'm a non-member.  The only difference I see is
>> a matter of semantics in the same vein as a glass that is half empty or half
>> full.  There's the same amount of liquid either way.
>>
>>      
> 1.  Because truth matters and the truth is that we are charging extra for
> non-members, not giving a discount to members.
> 2.  Because the two statements are not equivalent.  A non-member surcharge
> carries the implication that the standard is membership, and if you are not
> a member then there is an extra charge.  A member discount carries the
> implication that the standard is non-membership but we give a discount to
> members.  Emotionally the statements are not the same.  If they were we
> wouldn't be arguing about it.
>
>
>    
>> As to why it makes a difference to me is purely a matter of perception to
>> our new members who are just trying us out.  One phrasing has more positive
>> connotations, the other has more negative connotations.  Given that the same
>> money is collected, the same way, from the same people.  I would prefer to
>> use a phrase that may be more welcoming to new people.
>>
>> The question can also be asked, what harm is there calling it a member
>> discount?  I don't have to like NMS (in fact I don't), but since I can't
>> avoid it, I would still rather use the most inviting terminology I can
>> towards newcomers.
>>
>>      
> 3.  The corporation has chosen to charge non-members extra to attend an
> event.  We have chosen to go along with them on this.  This says something
> about the corporation and about us, about what kind of organization we are.
> Calling the NMS something that it isn't, feels like attempting to mislead
> our new people about what kind of group we are.  It doesn't seem quite
> right.  We are an organization that requires people to either purchase a
> membership or else be charged extra if they attend events.  That's part of
> who we are, and people considering joining us have a right to know that.
> 4.  Words are symbols that stand for something else, a thing, an action or
> an idea.  Many people believe that if you change the symbols, that you also
> change the thing that the symbols represent.  We used to call this magic.
> These days we call it Political Correctness.  It doesn't actually work.
>
>
>
>    
>> Baron Donnchadh
>>      
>
>
> Robert Fitzmorgan
>