Heraldry

[I. Marc Carlson]

<Gunhildr<Leslie Miller <miller at pp.okstate.edu>>>
>  LM> bear... So Western  hmispheric critters* seem to be widely
>  LM> acceptable and frequently  used.  (I'm assuming that you're talking
>  LM> heraldry here, and not  actual people.)
>I am well aware of that, thank you.  I said nothing in my post aout 
>"knowing" or not "knowing" about the existance of something.  (I 
>was not aware that New Zealand was not discovered until so much 
>later.)

Not to be offensive, but I think that since the only non-European creature
on your list is His Grace Duke Lloyd's "Rattlesnake Chequy" (sp?)  The
question would be whether the terms "Acceptable" and "Frequently Used"
are appropriate, were the mattern ot made moot by the simple fact that
the devices in question were passed in the Good Olde Days when one
could get away with passing darn near anything.  Unfortunately, the
rules are currently a bit more strict.

Oh, and as for the Buffalo on the Barony of Eldern Hills banners, I
agree that it was likely to be intended to be a North American Bison.
Fortunately, there exists a European version of the same creature, also
known as a Wisent (aka an Aurochs, though not to be confused with the
Wild Ox of the same name).  There are a few differences between the two
(the Wisent is smaller and some of the bodily proportions vary minutely),
but they are more closely related than the Bison and the Buffalo.

>>guess which bear they were most likely to run across.
>Uh?  Brown bears?  :-)

Exactly.  However, I believe his point is that, as with the Scorpion,
these creatures, while not directly indiginous to Europe, were within
a certain sphere of recognized creatured that were easily known in
the period, and moreover, in the case of the Scorpion at least, have made
numerous appearancs in ancient and period Bestiaries (I believe the Polar
Bear did as well, but can't cite a source for it at the moment, so I 
will leave it alone).

OTOH, *MY Device*, that of a "Bengal Tiger Natural" was neither known in
period nor cited in Bestiaries.  Tygers were, of course, but were absolutely
unlike what we think of today as Tigers.  Moreover, MY device was passed
well after 1980.

And just a note, when commenting on devices and charges that people use,
I have no statistics to prove my supposition, but I would suggest that far
more devices are used than are ever submitted or passed.

"Mihi Satis Apparet Propter     Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn
  Se Ipsum Appetenda Sapientia"	University of Northkeep
 -- St. Dunstan			Northkeepshire, Ansteorra
				(I. Marc Carlson/IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu)