Period Heraldric Styles...

Thu Aug 17 17:25:43 PDT 1995

> >> No, you missed the point that it we aren't *required* to wear period
> >> clothes, so why bother? It's the same thing. This is just a matter of
> >> you are telling people who only use Period Styles that they are cool,
> >> and everyone else isn't. Just another place to encourage instead of
> >> *require*.
> > Costuming knowledge is much more widespread than heraldry knowledge. I 
> > have seen a lot more good first costuming attempts than first heraldry 
> > attempts.
> Was it always widespread? Did people have to enforce period costuming to
> get people to do it? No, they just had to encourage by example.

Clothing has been restricted for a long time in the SCA. Since I 
think 1973 when the SCA as a WHOLE decided to be a HISTORICAL 
organization rather than a historical/fantasy organization. To go to 
an SCA event you have to attempt pre-1600 costume (it's in Corporea). 
Different kingdoms/areas handle this in different ways. Our kingdom 
has been traditionally more lax (or at least the 9 years I've been 
in) depending on the case and PR. At Raven's Fort and in Seawinds 
when I was there we would allow neighbors (of the site) and certian 
other persons on site without insisting they wear garb, so they 
would be able to see what was going on without getting wrong 
thoughts. If they decided to stay we usually insist that they at 
least throw on a tunic or tabard (that the hospitillar provides). 
People have been requested to leave site for non-compliance(eg It's 
okay if you want to come party as long as you do it by the rules 
which include garb, fees, and waivers)

We encourage GOOD costuming by example. 

> > There is also a fairly significant socal pressure to wear 
clothing that 
> > is at least not distractingly non-period. On heraldry, fewer people seem 
> > to even have a clue.
> You think there wouldn't be social pressures if someone had a large
> penis on their shield, or even a cartoon?

It might be amusing for a bit (a joke thing) but discouraged if done 
all the time. A friend of mine put a happy face on his shield along 
with ones on the wings of his knees and elbows as a joke, one time 
was fine, he might even do it agian someday, but he won't do it every 
fighter practice. 

> > > You mean all those people who got heraldry in the early days are now
> > > discouraged from playing because they don't have period heraldry?
> > Huh? I don't think I see your point, and I don't think you answered mine.

A lot of them are no longer playing. (Exception -the Bellatrixs)
> The point was that the early SCA heraldry wasn't period. I'm not sure
> which question you are referring to. If you mean 'so why bother?', it's
> because in general people will want to comply, but that doesn't mean
> they have to! (Btw, I've heard that some heraldry doesn't pass because
> of the content, usually puns, eventhough it is period. That seem
> *wrong*.)

Heralds don't pun --- they cant. A cant is somekind of symbolic 
reprentation of a name/kind of on that person's device. Like in 
English heraldry the Lucys have 3 fish on their shield one term for a 
kind of fish is luce. It is allowed in "real world heraldry" as well 
as SCA heraldry. Cants are generally looked at by SCA heralds as GOOD 
things. Some pun-like things are okay depending upon the 
"offensiveness" of the thing. 

> > A few concepts 
> > that the mideaval man would find disturbing have been added, and a couple 
> > colors, but where most folks have problems is with HERALDIC style, not 
> > period style. So you can use orange and 3-d perspective, so what? Still 
> > no Mickey Mouse(tm), landscape art, non-herladic divisions or gross 
> > complexity.

>Fine with me. How about the 2 groups being period and modern 
>heraldry then?

And you think it takes forever to register a device now???? 
Kief spends 40-60 hours a week doing the bulk of the work in the 
kingdom herald's office (not to mention the large amounts of time 
others VOLUNTEER to consult, run local offices, check for conflict, 
comment, enter the data on submissions, publish and mail all this 

>I didn't mean to imply that absolutely all heraldry submitted
> would pass, just that there would be two classifications. (Yeah, I know
> I didn't state it clearly at all.)

There are a few charges in period that are drawn in 3-D. The biggest 
problem with allowing 3-D charges is that we are still using our 
heraldry to identify each other from across the field. Changing most 
charges from 2-D to 3-D not only makes them harder to describe but 
also makes them damn difficult to identify from a distance. As far as 
the charges themselves - we are trying to create a middle ages kind of 
atmosphere. (now some of the rulings I do disagree with, but as they 
came up I was informed and if I had put in my 2 Cents in maybe they 
wouldn't exist)

> > > Why have one area and not others? Implies that it's elitest to me.
> > Your sentence implies elitism is a bad thing... :-)
> To some people. *grin*

We are elitest, we expect people to behave in certian manners and 
when they do not we exclude them and ignore them. Most of them leave
or find others of their kind and leave us alone. We expect 
people to learn the customs of our kindom and at least a little 
history and be honourable by our general conventions.

> Ciao,
> -- 
> Phelim Uhtred Gervas  | "I want to be called. COTTONTIPS. There is something 
> Barony of Bryn Gwlad  |  graceful about that lady. A young woman bursting with 
> House Flaming Dog     |  vigor. She blinked at the sudden light. She writes
> pug at  |  beautiful poems. When ever shall we meet again?"

Lorraine DeerSlayer 

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