Awards and Coronets

Pug pug at
Mon Mar 27 13:14:11 PST 1995

>> This is true if you consider humility to be a "knightly" state of being.
> Humility and desire for recognition may be two different things.  I 

I conceed this point. I didn't think it out well enough.

> believe it is possible to desire a title and still be modest.  
> Really now, how many knights fight Crown tournament out of 
> purely altruistic desires?  I think many of them probably fight 
> because they want to be "King".

To be honest, I think the desire to be King is outside of the other

> They want the *title*, the prestige, 
> the rank and power that goes along with it.

I think that the desire to be King should be the goal of every fighter
in this Kingdom. (Since that is how King is decided.) I can understand
that not all of them will want the recognition, but this is the ability
to be the best fighter in the Kingdom, not to be the best Knight.

> By your strict definition, 
> fighting in Crown tournament to become a "King" is unbecoming of 
> a peer.

I honestly view Kingship outside of the peerage realms. This loan title
has nothing to do with the attributes of becoming peers. (Very little to
do with Knights as I understand who can become King.)

> I am splitting a very fine hair, here, I realize.  I guess I must say 
> that I would like to agree with you on your ideals of peerdom, but 
> the realist in me is forcing me to debate.  Perhaps it is because I 
> know that *I* do not fit your ideals, and I'm just trying to justify 
> my own feelings.

To be quite honest, I am arguing my ideals here. Since I have no plans
of becoming a Knight, I have honestly don't know how my ideals would
change. As well, since I have not started moving up any of the ladders,
I don't know how long my ideals will hold out.

> It maybe relevant to note that I'm *not* a peer, 
> nor likely to become one anytime soon. :-)

Hell, I have no awards, so I guess I have a long way to go and to hopefully
prove my ideals. *grin*

> It think it should be for the opposite, IMHO.

This sounds good to me since I truly want to a seperation of "knightly"
attributes from good figthing.

> Yes, the pomp and circumstance around peerage s plenty of shouting.  

Good. I was afraid someone would need more. That is beyond
understanding. *wink*

> My point is that people desire exactly *that*.  If you do the work of a 
> Pelican (whatever that is!), is it wrong to desire that bit of pomp and 
> circumstance as a reward?  If only just a little bit?  That's all 
> I'm saying.  

I think that if that is your driving goal behind wanting to be a
Pelican, then you truly need to reevaluate your goals in the Society as
well as life.

I think that is my difference between want and desire. Desire has more
force behind it in my viewpoint.

> Thanks for a good discussion.  It's really forced me to examine my own 
> motivation and ideals.

Certainly. I hope that we haven't bored everyone else with this topic.

It's certainly helped me as well to try and voice/rethink what I view
the peerage *should* be in the Society. Hopefully if I decide to walk
one of those tracks I keep all of this in mind.


Phelim Uhtred Gervase | "I want to be called COTTONTIPS. There is something 
Barony of Bryn Gwlad  |  graceful about that lady. A young woman bursting with 
House Flaming Dog     |  vigor. She blinked at the sudden light. She writes
pug at  |  beautiful poems. When ever shall we meet again?"

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