Can we vote.

[Pug]

> I'm afraid I don't agree with this criteria for removing someone from
> the list, for a couple of reasons.

I had planned on this happening. If needed, we will work it out during
the Charter phase. I will still prefer it the way I stated, of course.

> Firstly, behavior on and off the discussion list may be completely
> unrelated.  Someone who, in posting, is abusive, offensive, or is
> otherwise engaging in unacceptable behavior on the list may never do
> similar things in person at events or in other contexts.  If the
> current Crown isn't participating in this forum, they may never see
> the offending actions, and may not feel compelled to act.

I am quite certain that parties will bring the actions of the populace
to the Crown's attention when needed. The Crown is never able to be
everywhere, so they must rely on their officers, Barons, nobility and
populace (remember we are all supposed to be nobility in the SCA) to act
in their stead.

> Second, though this forum is related to SCA activities, it isn't part
> of the SCA.  The two "worlds" involved, that of this forum and that of
> SCA events and other sanctioned activities, while certainly related to
> one another, are seperate.  While the Crown can impose sanctions with
> regards to participation at SCA events, they have no official presence
> or authority on this list.

I will be discussing this exact thing with the Crown this evening,
hopefully for the best to all involved on this list in the future.

> I think of this forum and others like it more like a collection of
> friends, most in the SCA while some are not, who meet on a regular
> basis at a common meeting place to talk about many things, most of
> which are related to SCA but not all.  The Crowns can no more tell me
> who I can and can't have over for drinks, snacks, and conversation
> than the Man in the Moon.  The Crown's writ may run far, but it doesn't
> run to my living room, or my computer.

I have heard many interpretations of where the SCA extends. I have heard
that if two people get together for sewing garb it is the SCA. According
to the "Laws of the Kingdom of Ansteorra" though, there are clear cut
lines on what is an SCA event, but is that all that is considered to be
the SCA? If so, then very few SCA meetings are events as I read the Law.
In those cases, does the Crown have authority or not? Just where does
the fuzzy line get drawn?

> As the maintainer of the list, you have a responsibility toward the
> health and well-being of it.  If enough (however you define "enough")
> people complain about the conduct of a poster _on_ _the_ _list_, then
> you have a duty to act, first by warning the offender, then (if the
> offensive behavior continues) by terminating his subscription.  While
> I realize that, unless the list software can be set up to prevent
> posting from non-subscribers or from selected addresses,

The software certainly can be setup to not allow postings from
non-subscribers and the like. This is currently an open list, and I hope
for it to stay that way. The majority of people associated with the
Society are reasonable enough to stop foolish behavior. If not, they are
not willing to do it withing the true realm of the Society as well.

> you can't
> really stop someone from posting, passing off the unpleasant but
> necessary responsibility for disciplining unruly subscribers to a
> third party who, in all likelihood, may not even be a subscriber to the
> list, is a cop-out, IMO.

To be honest, if we are able to work out clear enough guidelines that I
feel comfortable with enforcing, I shall. Otherwise, I feel that there
is no need to remove someone from this list unless they are bannished,
even if it's just a level 1 (or whatever they are referred to as).
Removing someone from this list is equivalent to disallowing them to
events in my mind.

> Far better, I believe, to lay out clear standards of conduct, with an
> equally clear statement that repeated violations of those standards
> will be grounds for removal from the list.

These standards certainly will be laid out. The course of action if
those standards are violated are what will need to be decided, probably
with much debate on the list, as well with SCA officials.

Ciao,

Phelim Uhtred Gervase

-- 
Richard Bainter          Mundanely     |    System Analyst        - OMG/CSD
Pug                      Generally     |    Applied Research Labs - U.Texas
 pug at arlut.utexas.edu  |  pug at bga.com  |  pug at eden.com  |  {any user}@pug.net
Note: The views may not reflect my employers, or even my own for that matter.