Peerage Stuff Re: Why I Hate Fencing

Jeanne C. Stapleton jstaplet at
Tue Dec 17 14:50:36 PST 1996

> > It would be nice if this simple Patent concept could be re-opened,
> > much as a simple Grant can be given; what sort of incentive would
> > it take to cause this to happen?  
> I guess my previous post to this list didn't make it out properly.
> It's not that it's "closed", in the sense that an order is closed
> but may concievably be reopened someday.  Corpora requires that each
> Patent of Arms be given with a Laurel, Pelican, Chivalry, Ducal or
> County or Viscounty rank, or the Rose; it forbids "naked" peerages. 
> (Aodhan posted that at least one person in the Ansteorran OP is
> listed as a "naked peer".  That's because the East (was it?) gives
> Patents with counties, but Ansteorra doesn't, so he had to have some
> way to record the Patent with her. Or so I recall.)
I guess my reply was done with insufficient caffeine, because I did 
understand that Corpora forbids "naked" peerages at this time; 
the discussion around which my response revolved was about one
Constance, whom someone believed to have a plain Patent, and
then corrections followed saying no, that was not the case.  I do not
know the gentle involved, and I did not know if perhaps simple 
Patents had been allowed at one time in AS Single Digits,
response was predicated on those things.

I haven't gotten around to viewing the Ansteorran OP yet, despite
the fact that it is conveniently on-line and I was unfamiliar with 
the situation you cited, namely a Patent awarded after a county.

> Since it's in Corpora, the Board would have to change it.  I suspect
> it would be a major change and would require a lot of work.  If
> you're really interested, I'd suggest talking to the Grand Council
> or the Inter-Kingdom Advisory Council.  I would expect to work for
> several years, or possibly to be shot down on takeoff.
Anyway!  Yes, this would be a major change; I'm wondering how people
would feel about this, because there are some significant 
ramifications.  My IAC rep lives about 12 blocks from me, and he's 
always complaining about the lack of input, so maybe I'll run it past

It could well be shot down on the takeoff as simply unworkable.  I'm
sure that there are some people whom the mere idea would deeply
offend for reasons that I cannot fathom.  I'm not prepared to go on
crusade about it, but if the Board is really looking at radical 
proposals as recently appeared in the kingdom newsletters, this
might be another they tack on the list!

> -- 
>                              Tim McDaniel
>                         Reply-To: tmcd at
>               Never use mcdaniel at
Countess Berengaria de Montfort de Carcassonne, OP
Barony of Caerthe
Kingdom of the Outlands

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