[TY] TYF - Safety, Part 1 (fwd)

[Matthew R. Popalisky]

(this is from Kateryn, btw.  Many thanks to Lord Edrei the Quiet for
forwarding them to me)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:07:19 -0600 (CST)
From: "David L. Backlin" <dbackli at comp.uark.edu>
To: mrp at engr.uark.edu
Subject: [TY] TYF - Safety, Part 1 (fwd)

STILL more to come....

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 96 20:30:00 GMT 
From: w.colbert2 at genie.com
Reply-To: meridies at web.ce.utk.edu
To: meridies at comp.uark.edu
Subject: [TY] TYF - Safety, Part 1

SAFETY

Your Majesties have written that You consider safety to be the
paramount consideration in Your decision to terminate period
fencing.  Specifically, Your statement was:

  "All of these factors together would not cause Us to end
   the experiment early.  However, due to the recent
   serious injury in a fencing accident, and the
   penetration of a mask in another accident, We feel that
   safety has moved to the forefront of the issue.  Safety
   dictates that We act now.  It is for these reasons that
   We end the experiment."

I concur completely that safety must be the primary issue.  To
that end, I will address both of the incidents You cite above.
In addition, I will provide an analysis of risk assessment for
period combat activities.

Your decision was based on extremely inaccurate and incomplete
information, which was admittedly the best available to You at
the time.  Perhaps part of the reason for that was that You acted
without consulting Your marshal of fence or either of his
deputies.  You did, of course, write that You had consulted Your
Earl Marshal.

The information presented below will hopefully assist You in a
reconsideration based on fact and expert testimony.

THE MASK PENETRATION INCIDENT

The mask penetration incident is mythical.  It did not happen.

It is a little hard to investigate something that did not happen,
but I was able to trace some potential sources of the rumor.  The
first response is from Master Tivar Moondragon, the Deputy
Society Marshal for Rapier Combat.  He has held this position
since 1987:

  "Now here are the facts: The Earl Marshal of the Outlands
   mentioned in his last report to the Society marshal that
   there had been a mask penetration. I emailed him for
   details, he said he'd get them and get back to me. A week
   later, since I hadn't heard anything further, I emailed
   their Rapier Marshal. *He* reported that this was pure
   rumor. The incident was supposed to have happened in El Paso
   Texas; he had spoken to every marshal within 300 miles of El
   Paso, and *none* of them knew anything about it.  It appears
   that the Earl Marshal heard from a friend who heard from a
   friend who heard from a friend...but you get the idea. It's
   probably a rehash of the time I was "killed" at the second
   Ansteorran Queen's Champion Tournament in 1980.

           -Tivar Moondragon
            Ansteorra"

The second response is from the deputy kingdom marshall of fence
for the region including the Barony of the Citadel (El Paso, TX):

  "There is no basis for this report.  We do not know where our
   Kingdom Earl Marshall (Sir Jalut Gaston de Navarre) got this
   information from.  We were never contacted to provide
   information to confirm or deny this report by the Kingdom
   Earl Marshall prior to it's dissemination.  We attempted to
   contact him to find out where this came from and have not
   yet gotten a reply.

   The Kingdom Marshal of Fence contacted us (unfortunately he
   found out at the same time as everyone else in the known
   world) for information and we gave him what we have here.

   FYI

   1) At a local event - Sack of the City,  a fencer from
   Nahrun Kabirun (Las Cruces  New Mexico) took a spill in a
   fencing melee and hit her MASK (front fencing mask) on the
   rocks.  NO puncture, but a dent.  The three weapon mask is
   still sound as per the thumb pressure test.  I performed the
   test myself.

   2) A fencer in the Barony of the CITADEL of the Southern
   Pass (El Paso, TX) BROKE a blade while straightening it out.
   The blade did not break in combat.

   Add the two together (in a WARPED way)
   1) in the Citadel
   2) broken blade
   3) mask

   That's my best guess.  I have talked to the Marshal of Fence
   in the Barony and the fencers of the Barony and the
   surrounding areas.  No idea of where this story came from.

   If in fact this event did happen, it did not happen at a
   sanctioned Citadel practice or event (or any other practice that
   we know of).

   Viscount Sir Berold de Gilbert
   Deputy Kingdom Marshall of Fence - Outlands"

The third response is from a fencer who took a sharp blow to his
mask two years ago, at an event in the Citadel.  This is
forwarded off the West fencers list:

  "Ok here is some poop about the possible incident in El Paso
   with a mask "Penetration". I feel qualified to say something
   since I am the person that was possibly involved. It took
   place about 2 years ago and occasionally the story gets
   distributed around and as with any story, it expands with
   each telling.

   I was in a wonderful little tourneyment down in the Barony
   of the Citadel in El Paso. It was a really good day for me
   and I was doing well for the most part. I had to withdraw
   from one bout due to my refusal to continue against an
   unsafe opponent but other than that I was enjoying myself
   and progressing well. In my last bout I was fighting against
   a Cadet that I had practiced with regularly and had fought
   on numerous occasions. He on the other had had not been
   feeling well all day and unfortunately continued in the
   tourneyment. His slight illness was causing him to slow down
   a bit and he began compensating for the loss in speed with
   an increase in force.

   To make a long story short. He and I faced off in the
   semi-final rounds and we fought sword and buckler, he
   performed a beautiful fake that lowered my buckler and he
   took a face shot that bounced off the edge of my buckler as
   I compensated and thrust directly into my mask. To this day
   there is a 1/2 inch deep dent in my mask just between my
   eyes. I carry this mask as a demonstration device. The mask
   was not breeched nor was it damaged in any other way than
   the dent. It did exactly what it was intended to do. As for
   the other fencer, he was mortified and embaressed and stoped
   fencing for the day right there. I took it in stride as i
   got up off the ground and watched a few stars go by.
   Needless to say. I took the blow :)

   Now I think this is the story that is getting escalated and
   growing in seriousness and audience. Like I said, it
   happened 2 years ago. I am still here and running my yap as
   usual.

   Laird Ian the Fariner of Dunkeld (called Farin)"

Mr. Dana Groff (Don Danulf Donaldson) is a former member of the
board of directors of the Northeast Division of the United States
Fencing Association.  He was able to provide information on the
only known mask penetration fatality.

The incident occurred during the 1982 World Championships, in
Rome.  The bout was between a German fencer named Matthias Behr
and a Russian named Vladimir Smirnov, and during the bout a mask
penetration did occur, resulting in the death of the Russian.
The mask had been inspected, and has passed an 8kg (kilogram)
punch test.

After appropriate study and deliberation, the standard for masks
was raised to 12kg, by 1985.  This is the standard in effect
today, for both modern fencing and SCA period fencing, and there
have been no similar incidents since that time.

For those interested in further research, the citation is:
   Vladimir Smirnov - World Championships, Rome - July 1982
   dead...  Article talking about "options" -- "Apropos D'un
   Accident" which was reprinted in American Fencing (?) at an
   unknown date -- its a reprint of Feb-March 1983 ESCRIME.

Mr. Groff also informed me that there has NEVER been a fatality
in modern fencing within the United States.

In summation, Your Majesties, there is no factual basis for the
alleged mask penetration incident.