Welsh / Celtic stuff
tmcd at crl.com
Thu Oct 24 23:24:34 PDT 1996
Oh, Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn, forgive me for my manglings of
things Welsh! It was late (but now it's later), I was hurried, ...
and now memory returns to me too late, my concience (and wish not to
look foolish) burns me, and I cannot sleep ...
I actually wrote:
> ... "The Celts identified themselves
> by their patronymic preceded by 'ap' or 'ab' (son of)."
> No, the *Welsh* did. Most Celts were not Welsh! The Irish, for
> instance, used ui, inghean, O, mac, and other such things (at various
> times; I omit the diacritical marks, BTW). When I would say Welsh was
> early enough to be approaching something callable "Celtic" (as a more
> universal term), they were using "mab". Also, the Welsh used "verch"
> for metroymics.
Errors and possible errors that I know of:
- I wrote "inghean" from memory; I don't know if it's spelled write.
(That last was a fortunate tyoe.)
- Ignore that bit about "approaching ... 'Celtic'". I should just say
that early Welsh had "mab" or "map". (One is the nominative form, I
think, and one is ... "mutated"?) It's not worth trying to explain
the misconception I was trying to express.
- Dear Lord, "verch" (or "ferch") has nothing to do with matronymics!
"A[pb]" is simply "son of", and "[fv]erch" is "daughter of". (The
Web page then implies that either women called themselves "son of",
or the Celts or Welsh had no women, which explains some of their
raiding but not their population.) "Ap" or "ferch" could also be
used in a matronymic, if followed by the mother's name rather than
Yea, I am verily a doofus ... I hope that she gets this before she
calls the archers ...
Daniel de Lincoln
Reply-To: tmcd at crl.com
mcdaniel at mcdaniel.dallas.tx.us is wrong tool. Never use this.
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