ANST - Long Courts & Oaths

Mitchell, Paul T MTCHPTAA at
Mon Aug 4 10:51:00 PDT 1997

Lionardo Acquistapace wrote:
From:  ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG
Sent:  Monday, August 04, 1997 10:51 AM
To:  Mitchell, Paul T; ansteorra
Subject:  Re: ANST - Long Courts & Oaths

On Fri, 01 Aug 1997, Sir Burke Kyriell MacDonaldu wrote:

>Several people have posted lately that the length of court at coronation   
>a problem, that some of the activities involved are boring, and that for
>the sake of brevity we should either cut out or group up parts of each   
>To this I say ney!

[big snip describing ceremony and it's significance]
>The oath the legion of

This is off topic from what I intend to post here, but does it strike
anyone else as a bit weird to have a "Legion of Swashbucklers"? Other
than sounding like the "Justice League of America" or something, how
many rapier combatants out there consider themselves "swashbucklers"?
I could very well be in a minority here, but my persona sure doesn't
run around like a 16th century gang member "swashing his buckler" to
intimidate other gang members to come out and fight him. But, maybe
that's just me. I'm probably just a snobbish, stuck-up, Italian noble.

You know how it is.  Old traditions.  Improved knowledge & research.   
Rapier combat used to be a lot less mainstream in this kingdom than it
now is, and "Legion of Swashbucklers" is a 20-year-old holdover from   

[snip of rest of descriptions]

>But before you speak as an old time player who has seen all of this
>many times before, what about the new person attending their first
>Corination.  Would you rob them of part of the magic just because you   
>become bored?

OK, how about someone speaking as a relative newcomer (1.5 yrs.) at
their very first Coronation. While I admit a good deal of the
pageantry was very nice, including most of those areas you mentioned,
the swearing of fealty was still excessively long and, usually, fairly
boring as well. I think it's great that folks want to swear fealty and
have it be a deeply personal experience, and I certainly appreciate
what it symbolizes. But if the oaths cannot be heard and if they have
no relevance to educate us about a period oath your persona might have
sworn, then most of the populace could really care less who is or is
not swearing fealty in the middle of court.

I am sorry to say that I must concur with those who suggest a group
fealty swearing. Perhaps a generic oath by the group during Coronation
and an allowance for personal oaths at some other time. I have no
problem with swearing such oaths publicly, but this particular court
is already excessively long, and I beg you to realize that I happen to
be speaking as one of those people who thoroughly enjoys court.
Perhaps it's my theatrical training coming through, or perhaps it's
more the realization that you can't teach very much if your class is

Honos Servio,
Lionardo Acquistapace, Bjornsborg
(mka Lenny Zimmermann, San Antonio)
zarlor at

I hope I am not betraying His Majesty's confidences, but he actually did
consider pretty much all the arguments we're seeing in this thread as he
wrote his ceremony.  Even at the last minute, as one of his close   
was suggesting he reconsider group fealty oaths, his reply was to note   
the peers and barons are members of the populace, too.  Rather than to
deprive his vassals of the opportunity to swear individual fealty, he   
to lengthen the court, accepting the attendant problems and   

It seems to me that this is a case in which the interests of one group   
be balanced against the interests of another; different Crowns and   
people may reasonably reach different conclusions about which group's
interest should take precedence.

 - Galen of Bristol
pmitchel at
paul.t.mitchell at  

To be removed from the Ansteorra mailing list, please send a message to
Majordomo at Ansteorra.ORG with the message body of "unsubscribe ansteorra".

More information about the Ansteorra mailing list