ANST - Fighting awards/orders...

James Crouchet jtc at
Wed Nov 12 08:43:06 PST 1997

A few points that could use a bit of clarification. I don't think any 
of this changes the fundamental thrust of this conversation, nor am I 
weighing in on either side, but I did want to point out a few things 
that I think have been glossed over.

1. The Laurels that have been given to rapier fighters have been 
not been given for fighting well and other stuff, rather for 
researching re-creating period technique. There have generally been 
other components as well, such as researching and building period 
weapons, costuming and persona, and writing papers on those and 
related subjects. My point is, there is NOT a path of progression in 
any kingdom from White Scarf to Laurel. Rather, those rapier fighters 
who got Laurels got them in RELATED areas, just as Sir Conor and Duke 
Inman got Laurels for armoring and related work, not armored 

2. Bryn Gwlad's Muse -- an A&S award -- was mentioned. In addition
we have a fighting award called the Cross Fleury. The interesting
thing about these awards is that they are not for achievement, but
for service. For example, someone could be an incredible artist but
if they do not serve this barony directly in the Arts and Sciences
they are not eligible for a Muse. OTOH, Someone could have no
artistic talent whatsoever but if they were the greatest promoter
of A&S our barony had ever seen, they would certainly be on the
short list.

If we simply gave the Muse for artistic talent/accomplishment there
would be no reason for it to exist as the thistle already covers
that. The Cross Fleury, similarly, is given for martial service. 

3. There is no restriction that prevents a Don from getting a Queen's 
Rapier or a Knight from getting a Sable Falcon. Nor is there and 
restriction on how many of these may be given to any one person, 
though only AEtheylen Moondragon holds two (Queen's Rapiers) at this 

OPINION: Personally, I would like to see these given to Dons and
Knights though I think the meaning would be somewhat different for
them than for those without that rank. It would be a recognition of
special accomplishment, probably in a singular, spectacular instance
as continuing service to their respective communities is simply
expected of them. That act could be anything from especial service
to a spectacular act on the field, so long as it was extraordinary for
a person of that rank and directly related to that fighting style.

I would also like to see these awards given more than once to the
same person when their actions warranted such, though if a person has
multiple Queen's Rapiers or Falcons the Dons or Knights should
probably be taking a long look at them as a potential candidate. 

4. I think that under our current charter the CROWN -- not just the 
Queen -- are principals of the WSA. Hmmm...I think we may have had a 
king wear a white scarf as well.

5. As for Knighthood not being able to be given for rapier, I think 
that the last time the BoD seriously discussed the possibility of a 
peerage for rapier they ended up saying something like, "This should 
not be an issue as we already have a fighting peerage and don't need 
to make another." Man is THAT open to interpretation. I would love to 
hear one of the BoD members from that meeting explain the intent of 
that statement, but I expect the intent was to leave the whole issue 
on the back burner for a few more years. Anyone reading this who was 
around for that?

OPINION: Personally, the peerage thing is not a big deal to me one 
way or the other. The White Scarf can meet as a circle and do our 
thing, so the work gets done (or if it does not then making a 
peerage would not help). The important thing is our service to the 
rapier community, the rest is all window dressing.

Don Doré
Go to to perform mailing list tasks.

More information about the Ansteorra mailing list