ANST - New topic

[Lenny Zimmermann]

On Wed, 3 Sep 1997 22:01:07 -0500, Timo wrote:
>Greetings!

And to you in return, Honorable Messere,

>Boy, pretty quiet list today. Anyway, I've had a number of questions and
>thoughts on my mind recently, maybe this is a good time to bring them up.
>
>Honor and Chivalry are two topics that seem to be talked about  frequently.
>I've been thinking about another spin on these venereable subjects. 

Let me first place a disclaimer that my answers to these most
interesting questions are only applicable to myself. I tend to view
"winning" in a tournament as meeting the goals that I have set for
myself, not necessarily being the victor over the other combatants.
Any apparent censure in these viewpoints is only regarding myself. Any
other viewpoints are, to my way of thinking, equally valid. It's just
a slightly different game that we each play, so I do not view my
answers as "cut and dried" for anyone but me. That being said...

>        1: Do you give an opponent choice of weapons?

Usually I try to do so, unless they are insistent that I choose. I try
to give them the choice even more so if I am of a "higher" station.

>  Let's say you are paired with Joe Newcomer in the first round.

I would certainly try to allow a younger fighter a choice of weapons
so they may fight in a form they feel most comfortable with. Thereby
trusting in my supposedly better skills to keep me up and running even
if the weapons style is one of my worst.

>  What about Sir Supercool?

Certainly, unless they insist. I think it usually depends on my
approaching them and asking what they want to play, or if they
approach me. It seems a fairly nebulous thing that occurs as timing
dictates.

> Do you insist on your favorite?

Nope.
> Does it matter if you're Duke Hotottrot and he has no chance?

Nope.
> Does it matter if he's the Duke?

Nope. But that might make me want to fight in a style I know I'm
pretty good in, if I have been given the opportunity to choose the
style.

>        2: Do you give a point of honor to your opponent?  Arm or leg him,
>and would you give up your own?

Yes. (As long as they would not take offence to my doing so.)

>What if he's a superior fighter?

If they are vastly superior then I may consider not giving the point
of honor. Notice I said consider. It depends on how I feel that day
and whether or not I even remember to consider it, instead of just
doing it. Some habits die hard. ;-) I would mention to them, however,
that because I wish to acknowledge their superior skill that I will
not be giving-up that gained advantage.

>  An inferior one?

Absolutely.

> Would you want the same treatment?

I would appreciate it and accept it as the gift that it is if the
courtesy were shown to me. However, I never expect to be treated that
way.

>What if giving up an advantage *is* an advantage to you?

Well, for me the giving up of an advantage usually is giving up an
advantage or, at best, not a loss of advantage. I can't really think
of a gained advantage. (Although I usually do pretty good from the
ground against standing opponents.) Even so, it's important to me that
the perception be there. Usually there is also a level of degrees in
giving up advantage and I usually try to match them well.

> What about giving an advantage to a less talented person to start the bout?
>(ie: fight offhanded against Joe Newcomer in his first tourney)

I've never considered it. Usually because you don't know someone is
just learning or lower in talent/skill when you first fight them. I
suppose if I did know that I would not give up an obvious advantage. I
may, usually inadvertently, get stuck in "teach mode" and utilize less
complex attacks/defenses and slow my timing some. I've often been
caught flat-footed in tournament because I tend to naturally fall into
that when fighting someone who has shown themselves to be a bit less
skilled than I am at the time. Oh well, even if I lose, at least I
tried to make the fight interesting for them!

>Is that insulting to the other person?

I believe giving an obvious advantage right off would probably be
construed as an insult, so I would not do it.

> What about accepting an advantage from a more talented person? 

I would much prefer that they not do so, as I would tend to construe
it as though the person were telling me they felt I was not capable of
fighting to their level, even if only for a mere moment of luck. While
I may not be a hot stick fighter, I do have a modicum of skill and I
think I would find such a "statement" by a superior fighter to be a
little disappointing.

Let me add as a side note that I have a code that I fight by on the
field that is not necessarily the same that many others fight under.
This is not to say that the way I play is better, only that it is a
method I prefer for myself. (Mostly because of some research I have
done on Northern Italian perceptions of Honor and how it would play
out on a dueling field, as I do not yet know what the tournament
attitude ideally should be.) For example, in a duel in Italy it would
have been considered somewhat cowardly NOT to yield if blood had been
drawn on you. The reason is that by yielding you would have to admit
that you were wrong about whatever the duel was about. If you would
rather die than face up to the "fact" that you were wrong, then you
are, in effect, a coward. As such I love it when people forget to ask
me to yield, since I get to continue playing, but I would always do so
if asked. 

In fact I had a great time with this at Queen's when I fought Lord
Aaron Harper who stabbed my thumb during our fight. He knows my views
on yielding and we were having so much fun that instead of asking me
directly to yield he said, "My Lord, what do you wish to do." I
"wished" to continue fighting, but would yield if he asked, so I
simply replied, "Whatever you wish." To which he responded by going On
Guard. He defeated my by taking my other arm in that fight, but I
thank him heartily for letting me continue on in what was a very fun
exchange. But letting my fight or not, he would have lost no honor on
the field that day, to my way of thinking. But I digress.

>        3.Do you *try* to win every bout?

Absolutely. Even if I do get stuck in that "teacher mode"
occasionally. ;-)

>  Give 110%? Maybe only 75%?

I always try to fight to the best of my abilities. I sometimes fail...
or perhaps it is better to say that I often fail. But I think it is
the trying to achieve that exceptional ability that really counts.

> Does it dishonor your opponent (or yourself) to *not* try to the greatest of your
>ability?

I think it could be construed this way, even if I certainly intended
no dishonor. 

> Is it ok to "throw" a bout?

If you are throwing a bout because it is a tournament you entered
entailing responsibilities that you cannot fulfill (such as Crown
Tournament, Queen's Champion or King's Champion) that I say it is not
acceptable to have even entered the tournament, let alone to have
thrown any bouts in that tournament. Otherwise, I suppose it would
depend on the circumstances.

> What if the person is  very deserving of victory?
> What if they are new? Or your friend? 

These are tough ones. If I had received a good deal of recognition for
my prowess on the field and won a few tournaments, then I might
consider throwing a bout for the fulfillment of those I feel are
deserving of their day of glory. I would NEVER let them know I had
thrown the bout and would NEVER let others know that I had done so. If
it happens it should be a private pact with myself for reasons that I
feel are justified and worthy. I don't know if the situation will ever
arise, but I hope that I will give a great deal of consideration and
thought to the repercussions of my actions before laying my honor on
the line. I will say that I could not throw the bout if I had sworn
any form of oath declaring I would fight to the best of my abilities
for that tournament.

>        4. Now to the odd one... Is it honorable to *want * to win? ("huh?")
>I mean, everyone wants to win,(and have fun) but where do you draw the line?
[snip]

Wanting to win is usually a truthful statement of what you would hope,
or like, to occur. As such I do not see how it could be dishonorable
simply to want to win. Now I would have to say that if I were to
compromise my fighting ethics and not do the same thing in the same
situations whether they occur on a minor Toys for Tots tournament or
in Crown/Queen's, then by that action I would not be true to myself.
By compromising that truth, I am dishonored, and I should know it and
be ashamed by it. We all make mistakes and if I were to make this
mistake, I would have to do much to atone for those mistakes before I
would be willing to truly forgive myself. (At least I sure hope I
would, a the situation has yet to arise, and hopefully never will!) 


Honos Servio,
Lionardo Acquistapace, Bjornsborg
(mka Lenny Zimmermann, San Antonio)
zarlor at acm.org
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