ANST - Sword Facts (Long)

Tue Apr 7 15:03:11 PDT 1998

This seems to be the same type of situation that I deal with on a daily
basis at work.  Take two people.  Have them stand on two sides of any
paper....all you can see is the side that faces you.  And, for that person,
their reality and belief system is delineated by that side....you have to
walk around and change your perspective in order to acheive anything.
Follow channels, take a deep breath...it can be worked out.
Ulrica (The Blacklake one....)
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Mitchell <pmitchel at flash.net>
To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>
Date: Tuesday, April 07, 1998 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: ANST - Sword Facts (Long)

>Galen here!
>
>Pug Bainter wrote:
>>
>> Good Morning,
>>
>>   Although I know my station, realize that my word is meaningless in
>>   such matters and will probably regret it, I have to voice my opinion
>>   due to the nature of this missive posted to the Ansteorran list for
>>   which I am responsible.
>
>Like I keep telling you, Pug, we all get to have opinions, and we're
>all entitled to express them, and have them accorded respect according
>to their content, not according to our rank.
>
>>   Unlike His Excellency Sir Lyonel, I will comment on a few items within
>>   your missive.
>>
>> Megan & Orm said something that sounded like:
>> > Having stated the facts, we will now note what deeply troubles us about
them.
>>
>>   To be honest, I do not view these items as facts since there is too
much
>>   emotion and venom rolled into them. I view facts as being devoid of
>>   feeling and agreed to by all parties who view them as being accurate
and
>>   complete.
>
>Have you ever seen testimony in a courtroom?  While Orm & Megan's
>account was certain their point of view, the matters presented as
>fact were completely consistent with my understanding of fact, as
>told to me by many witnesses, and by my own presence in the meeting
>of the Lions & Royal Family.  Let me say that again.  What they
>said was "fact", really was fact.  What they labelled as opinion,
>really was opinion.
>
>> > The Lions of Ansteorra, are named to defend The Dream.  What are the
>> > elements of that dream?
>>
>>   This is the same dream that you have just smashed for a portion of the
>>   populace of this fair Kingdom. By airing your dirty laundry and hurt
>>   feelings, you have shown that the Dream contains pettiness, distrust
>>   and loathing. These are not the things that *my* Dream is made of.
>
>But Pug, you have been in the forefront, on this list, of pointing out
>when things are done badly.  No Pelicans in court?  Bad fighting in
>Crown?  Poor behavior by peers?  All this stuff gets discussed on-line
>and has been discussed on the Ansteorra list.
>
>>   My Dream contains the things the His Excellency Edwin showed when he
>>   stated that the Sword was but a symbol and the Crown was the true
>>   force behind these things. It is this type of Chivarly and Forgiveness
>>   that I hold dear to my heart. This should have been when the issue was
>>   finalized.
>
>What happened to Kein could have happened to anyone.  Check again,
>Orm and Megan aren't calling for bad things to happen to Kein.
>
>> > What we hope to achieve by expressing these facts and corresponding
concerns
>> > is this: Illumination of the populace, and a change in the way we do
>> > business within the kingdom court.
>>
>>   You wish to have a public lynching and satisfaction for you feel you
>>   have been wronged. This is not justice nor illumination of the issue,
>>   but it is revenge that you seek.
>
>You've just looked two people in the eye (figuratively speaking) and
>said that they don't intend what they say they intend.  What's your
>basis for that.  I've known these two for many years, and I've never
>known them to have hidden agendas.  I should think that their posting
>would be evidence that they are quite straightforward when they speak.
>
>>   Even I have sought illumination of issues on this list to the point
>>   that people question my motives, but I have never sought revenge nor
>>   to harm anyone. As well, I have shown a great tolerence for borish and
>>   unchivalric behavior. You have already exceeded that tolerence.
>>
>>   There are proper channels for complaint within this Kingdom and
>>   within this Society. If you choose to ignore proper etiquette and
>>   channels, please do not do so in an area that I am responsible for.
>>   As His Excellency Sir Lyonel pointed out, if you truly wish to have
>>   justice and satisfaction, please call for a Court of Chivalry.
>
>Y'all are simply assigning motives to their words, and then saying
>they've taken the wrong course to achieve their motives.  Their purpose
>is to inform.  We've often discussed that to preserve what's good in
>Ansteorra, we must point out good things to be emulated, and bad
>things to be avoided.  That's what they're trying to do.
>
>As to "proper channels" Pug, I suggest that both you and Sir Lyonel
>check kingdom law for any reference to "Court of Chivalry".  You
>won't find it there.
>
>>   The Ansteorran mailing list is for the populace of this, and other
>>   Kingdoms, to use in order to discuss things of relevance to our Kingdom
>>   and its populace.
>
>I submit that the preservation of two-decade-old traditions is
>relevant to our Kingdom.
>
>>   It is *NOT* a place for people to seek revenge.
>
>Quite so.  They aren't seeking revenge.
>
>>   This behavior will not be allowed to continue.
>>
>>   Please do not torture my lady by making me moderate this list due to
>>   your unchivalric behavior. If I must, I will filter out all discussion
>>   of this topic from the list.
>>
>> > We have come, over the
>> > years, and especially now, to know that the greatest threats to the
Dream
>> > are not weak, unwise kings, petty dukes, or even a greedy BOD.
>>
>>   When those people who are to uphold the Dream are themselves being
>>   petty, childish and unchivalric it is even a worse blow to the Kingdom,
>>   the Society and the Dream.
>
>Is it petty to point out when someone has erred?  Shall we stop that
>altogether?  What then will happen to all our ideals?
>
>- Galen of Bristol
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