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[Gunnora Hallakarva]

 Lord Johann said:
><< ...However, Sir Conor Mac Cinneade's objection to the inclusion of
Stargate
> (for various personal reasons) is noted. ...

Then Fergus the Stout asked:
> Could you elaborate further upon this statement?

Then  Lord Johann elaborated:
>Sir Conor explained to me that there are those in Stargate who have, from
time
>to time, formed a stranglehold on the Throne, to the detriment of the rest of
>the Kingdom.  Now, I personally have never experienced this phenomenom,
having
>been in the Society for only my fifth year, going on six, so I cannot say
>wether this is true or false; However, Sir Conor, having been around much
>longer than I, may have had this experience, so, until proven otherwise, I
>shall take his word at face value, and note his objection.

I have to point out here that: 

(1) It was completely unecessary to single out Connor for his desire not to
include Stargate in a Southern Principality. Connor was by no means the
only person to disagree with that proposal, and I personally can't even
swear that that *is* his belief -- I didn't hear what he had to say. All
you have done by relating Connor's supposed views is to piss some Stargate
folk off massively at Connor.  

(I can attest to this, looking at all the shit *I* received because of a
comment taken out of the context I intended which I made during the *last*
principality discussions!)

In this case, don't you think it would have stirred the cesspoll less to
have simply referred Fergus to Sir Connor and allowed the good knight to
explain, or not, as suited him personally?  Connor is perfectly capable of
pissing folk off on his own ;-) as can any of us!

(2) Making a Principality without Stargate will *not* prevent the talented
Stargate fighters from winning Crown, frequently.  There are a lot of them,
many or most of the best train with Duke Sigmund's Backyard and that
training has proved over time to produce winning fighters.  With so many
excellent fighters in one place, yes, you can expect to see Stargate Crowns
on a regular basis.  *However* being a Principality doesn't "get the South
away from those Stargate Crowns" -- indeed, it is *extremely* important to
recall that as a member of *any* Ansteorran Principality, you *will* be the
subject of the Stellar Throne, no matter *who* is sitting that throne,
whether you like them or hate them, so get used to it.  No King or Queen is
*ever* going to have all of the people like them and agree with them, even
part of the time -- this is your right, to disagree.  You still have to
*obey* the Crown, or else sit out that reign and don't play if you can't
manage to play nice.  

So far I have not heard *anyone* say they want to become a Principality to
avoid dealing with Stargate or any other group.  As I pointed out at
Tempio, the way to figure where the Principality borders should be is to
LOOK AT WHO WE PLAY WITH THE MOST!  I rarely travel as far east as
Stargate, normally because I've spent all my cash attending events closer
to home or where I have close friends I just *have* to visit.  This is true
of many folks in the Southern Region, but it is not the case for all,
certainly.  It will take much more discussion and planning before we can
sit down and say with certainty, "THESE are the borders we wish to place on
the formal poll for a Southern Principality."  It will take time,
discussion, and concensus, which we are far from achieving at this point.

(3) There are plenty of other people besides Sir Connor (if that is in fact
his opinion) who don't want to include Stargate in a possible Southern
Principality. 

Let me state here clearly, I do not care one way or the other personally if
All of Coastal or None of Coastal or Some of Coastal is included -- *I*
want to combine Western and Southern into a Principality, personally,
because there are many benefits to it for both the South and the West.
(Those who are interested in my views on *that* may inquire.) I have always
advocated a Principality because it would be fun to do, add more ceremony
and pomp, and add new leadership opportunities for folks who might not get
them otherwise (the hottest sticks will have to choose -- "Do I want to be
King this reign or Prince?" -- I'd guess that the elite of our warriors
will often choose to go for the Stellar Throne, thus opening up the Coronet
Lists to those who perhaps may have lesser swordarms, but equal heart).

The reasons are various why folks don't want the Southern Principality to
stretch all the way to Stargate:.  

(3A) The most important is to consider the fact that if one includes
Stargate, one will most likely have to include the neighboring groups in
what we might call the "Greater Stargate Area", including Bordermarch.  Not
that there's anything wrong with that, until you look at the population.
The "Greater Stargate Area" has the lion's share of Ansteorra's population,
and so far as I am aware, always has.  This is natural considering the size
of the area and the density of the mundane population.  

People were complaining that combining Western and Southern Regions to form
a Principality was "half the kingdom" (NOT - it may be geographically half,
but not anything near that population-wise) and this was perceived to be a
major problem, counteracting the desires to lessen travel distances and
lower the administrative burden for the nascent principality.  

Stargate alone has a very large SCA population, and when you add in the
"Greater Stargate Region" then you have enough people for that small
southeastern corner of Ansteorra to form their *own* principality. And
perhaps folks down there are considering just that -- I know that there are
several regional E-Mail Lists now, including the Southern Regional List,
and since I don't follow the others I can't say that the Coastal or
Southeastern portions of the Kingdom *aren't* considering forming a
Principality of their own. All I can say with certainty is that by adding
an additional area the size of the Greater Stargate Region, you have
negated the benefits of making a smaller administrative area.  Again, does
this mean don't do it?  Only time, discussion, and consensus will say.

(3B) Another thing to look at is this: though *no one* is proposing
splitting into a separate kingdom, you should *always* plan for growth.
Therefore the borders have to be considered in the light of "What happens 5
to 10 years down the road if the Principality *wants* and/or *needs* to
become its own kingdom?"  The borders can't cut the parent Kingdom into two
parts.  This has to be carefully considered when drawing those boundaries.
The further east you go, the smaller the eastern corridor of the parent
region of Ansteorra becomes.  So you have to be careful not to bisect the
kingdom.

(3C) Yet another reason I have heard is that, really, folk had not
considered including *any* of the Coastal groups.  However, Seawinds
specifically is petitioning to be included, which means that in order for
them to be included, La March Savage must also be.  This in turn means that
Rivertree may wish to consider the same thing, and so on.  I fully agree
that any groups bordering the Southern Region should be allowed to choose
to be included *if* Southern does go for Principality status.  Since some
undoubtedly will, better not to bite off too huge a hunk of the kingdom to
start with!  If the Principality is congruent with the entire Kingdom, you
have rather missed the point!

(3D) The last reason I have heard for not specifically wanting to include
the Stargate Area in a Southern Principality is the fact that the
southeastern portion of Ansteorra has its own very distinct SCA sociology
(as, for that matter, does the North, South, etc.) and in many ways this
differs from the way people play elsewhere, specifically in the Southern
Region.  None of this is an absolute bar from combining the groups, but if
you compare you will find that different regions have different beliefs
about the awards structure (who should get an award, what is required for
that award to be given, what the prerequisites for that award should be),
different styles of holding courts, feasts, and events in general, they
have differing views of appropriate ceremonies and what those ceremonies mean.

(4) Let me make this plea to all who are reading this missive:  we are
trying to consider the possibility of forming a Principality in a serious,
polite, peaceful way, so that everyone is happy with the final plan and no
one gets hurt.  Let us please try not to put anyone over the grille
specifically and roast them for their views.  We are *all* entitled to our
beliefs, and others should respect that, even if you violently disagree
with the opinion, or even violently detest the person with the opinion.

Lord Johann, consider this -- I've *already* heard the rumor that you made
the comment about Sir Connor's views as listed at the beginning of this
note *solely* to piss so many people off that the Southern Principality
would never get off the ground.  I seriously doubt that such is the case,
but it just provides a sterling example of the way people will exaggerate
and take things out of context.  

A long time ago, when visiting Orm and Megan's home, their guest bathroom
had a bucket with a lid, sitting in the tub.  The bucket had a sign that
said, "DON'T STIR THE BUNNIES" Of course, this cryptic notice provoked much
speculation, and finally we learned that the bucket contained a bunch of
rabbit skins in a tanning experiment gone VERY bad.

Given that, let me ask all of us: DO NOT STIR THE BUNNIES as regards the
Principality discussion!  Let's all commit to peaceful, polite, respectful
discussion, with equal consideration given to ALL opinions, no matter how
far from our own those might be!






Wæs Þu Hæl (Waes Thu Hael)

::GUNNORA::

Gunnora Hallakarva
Herskerinde
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ek eigi visa þik hversu oðlask Lofstirrlauf-Kruna heldr hversu na Hersis-Aðal
(Ek eigi thik hversu odhlask Lofstirrlauf-Kruna heldr hversu na Hersis-Adhal)

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