ANST - fealty and courts

ALBAN at delphi.com ALBAN at delphi.com
Fri Feb 13 21:43:10 PST 1998


From:	IN%"postmaster at delphi.com"  "PMDF e-Mail Interconnect" 13-FEB-1998 15:26:51.84
To:	IN%"ALBAN at delphi.com"
CC:	
Subj:	Delivery Notification: Delivery has failed

Return-path: <>
Received: from TCP-DAEMON by delphi.com (PMDF V5.1-8 #23839)
 id <01ITJB17TX6O969G9Y at delphi.com> for ALBAN at delphi.com; Fri,
 13 Feb 1998 15:26:17 EST
Received: from delphi.com (PMDF V5.1-8 #23839)
 id <01ITJ08LAQXC96500A at delphi.com>; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:26:16 -0500 (EST)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:26:16 -0500 (EST)
From: PMDF e-Mail Interconnect <postmaster at delphi.com>
Subject: Delivery Notification: Delivery has failed
To: ALBAN at delphi.com
Message-id: <01ITJB17506S96500A at delphi.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: MULTIPART/REPORT; BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_sGBQsz8ddSGQc34/eErluA)"


--Boundary_(ID_sGBQsz8ddSGQc34/eErluA)
Content-type: text/plain

This report relates to a message you sent with the following header fields:

  Message-id: <01ITJ8ZY1FW296BLS5 at delphi.com>
  Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:28:28 -0500 (EST)
  From: ALBAN at delphi.com
  To: ansteorra at eden.com
  Subject: Fealty in public

Your message cannot be delivered to the following recipients:

  Recipient address: ansteorra at eden.com
  Reason: Remote SMTP server has rejected address
  Diagnostic code: smtp;  <ansteorra at eden.com>... User unknown
  Remote system: dns; mail.eden.com (natasha.eden.com ESMTP Sendmail 8.8.8/8.8.8; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:26:15 -0600 [CST]) (natasha.eden.com Hello SYSTEM at bos1d.delphi.com [199.93.4.4], pleased to meet you)


--Boundary_(ID_sGBQsz8ddSGQc34/eErluA)
Content-type: message/DELIVERY-STATUS

Original-envelope-id: 01ITJ8ZY1FW296BLS5 at delphi.com
Reporting-MTA: dns; delphi.com

Action: failed
Status: 5.0.0 (Remote SMTP server has rejected address)
Original-recipient: rfc822;ansteorra at eden.com
Final-recipient: rfc822;ansteorra at eden.com
Remote-MTA: dns; mail.eden.com
 (natasha.eden.com ESMTP Sendmail 8.8.8/8.8.8; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:26:15 -0600
 [CST])
 (natasha.eden.com Hello SYSTEM at bos1d.delphi.com [199.93.4.4], pleased to meet
 you)
Diagnostic-code: smtp;  <ansteorra at eden.com>... User unknown

--Boundary_(ID_sGBQsz8ddSGQc34/eErluA)
Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822

Return-path: ALBAN at delphi.com
Received: from TCP-DAEMON by delphi.com (PMDF V5.1-8 #23839)
 id <01ITJ08LAQXC96500A at delphi.com> (original mail from ALBAN at delphi.com); Fri,
 13 Feb 1998 15:26:16 EST
Received: from delphi.com by delphi.com (PMDF V5.1-8 #23839)
 id <01ITJ8ZY1FW096BLS5 at delphi.com> for ansteorra at eden.com; Fri,
 13 Feb 1998 14:28:28 EST
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:28:28 -0500 (EST)
From: ALBAN at delphi.com
Subject: Fealty in public
To: ansteorra at eden.com
Message-id: <01ITJ8ZY1FW296BLS5 at delphi.com>
X-VMS-To: INTERNET"ansteorra at eden.com"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

I'd written
> Why do people swear fealty to the Crown during a court? Because it 
> serves to bind person to Crown, and Crown to person, in a way that 
> swearing an oath in private doesn't.
My esteemed heraldic colleague, the youth Daniel de Lincolia, responded:
>With all due respect to a senior member of the Society -bullpucky.  The 
>oath is just as binding if the two principals are alone in an empty room.  
>Witnesses add to the solemnity, mark it as a Significant Act, and may be 
>called to testify about it in case of dispute, and are therefore desirable.
In other words, swearing in public adds more oomph to the binding of that 
oath, which was my (ill-written) point. It's not so much that oaths have to 
be public to be valid that I'd wanted to emphasize as the _extra_ emphasis 
that doing so in public adds to the whole schmear. It's having all those 
gimlet eyes of friends and enemies staring at you that makes for the lump 
in the throat, and the little voice that says "What _are_ you getting yourself 
into?" Private oaths ar binding; public oaths are more so.
(Me? A "senior member"? Just because my membership is old enough that 
it can buy alcohol? Hmmph.)

Moi:
> It's for the same reason you get married with witnesses, 
> rather than just with the two participants and the priest.
Daniel:
>I suspect (but I'd have to look up aspects of canon law, I suppose) that in 
>most of period only the two people involved needed to agree, even 
>without a priest.  After all, marriage is the only sacrement that was 
>instituted in Paradise, well before there were priests.
Oh, I have no doubt that marriages made privately were valid in period; 
but, again, getting married in public makes it that much more significant, 
that much more obvious, that much harder to get out of/deny <grin>.

>In any event, "with witnesses" != "in Court".  I would much
>rather see fealty given while sitting in state (an occasional Middle 
>Kingdom custom hardly ever done here to my knowledge).  A peer could 
>come up with their dependents and local notables and swear there.  It's 
>semi-public -- anyone can watch a sitting in state.  However, it doesn't eat 
>into the schedule quite like a court.
This is a part of Inter-Kingdom Anthopology. When I swore fealty and did 
homage to my Laurel, in the (then) Principality of Artemisia, it was done 
well _after_ court, because I was told Ansteorrans simply didn't do that 
kind of thing in court. We still had a fair number of witnesses (damn near 
everyone who showed up at the event, near as I could tell, there being 
nothing else happening right then), and it sure as hell impressed both of us 
with the solemnity and the respoonsibilities we were taking up. In 
Calontir, I've seen such things done both within and outside of Royal 
Court. It depends on the kingdom, and the individuals involved. (And 
after mumblety-mumble years, and after more than enough Long, Boring 
Courts, I'd certainly love for more business to be conducted away from 
them, too.)

Alban "over-the-hill-and-well-into-the-woods "senior member"" St. Albans

--Boundary_(ID_sGBQsz8ddSGQc34/eErluA)--
============================================================================
Go to http://www.ansteorra.org/lists.html to perform mailing list tasks.



More information about the Ansteorra mailing list