ANST - Re: Teens in the SCA (LONG, PREACHING)

Helen Brown browns at
Thu Jul 2 16:18:01 PDT 1998

> From:          "Laury Torrence" <J-LTorrence at>
> Date:          Thu, 02 Jul 98 15:08:24 PDT
> > Ly Elspeth Lancaster wrote:
> 	<note this has been heavily edited to get to the point>
> > I joined the SCA when I was 13, w
> > One other thing that I noticed was that although I was doing the as much
> > as others around me with my garb, helping at events and such, they were
> > getting AoA's and I had been flatly told that I was not because of my age.
> > I felt bad that  even though I was doing the same exact thing as others,
> > because of my age I wasn't being recognized.
>  I'd be interested
> in knowing where she was told she wouldn't be eligible for an AoA because of
> her age. We have the Rising Star here in Ansteorra, and certainly anyone who
> does the work should be recognised. And I don't know of anything that should
> prevent a Sable Thistle if the costuming work was being done. (by hand no less)

One of our former members, now moved elsewhere was the one that told 
her and me that she couldn't get an AoA because of her age, which I 
knew was wrong because my son (Gorm McLeod) got his at age 16 after 
us both being members just over a year.  She did get a Rising Star 
at age 13, at our first Stronghold event.  She got her AoA at our 
event last year, at age 15.  She received a Sable Thistle in 
Costuming at the Laurels Prize Tourney, last fall, just after she 
turned 16. That brings you up to date on her age and award status.  
She will be CO-AUTOCRATING our event again this year in September 
with me, only because she cannot be warranted as full autocrat 
because of her age, but let me tell you she is doing most of the work 
(telephone calls, planning, organizing, etc.), because she wants to 
do it and I'm letting her.  The rest of our group is supporting her 
and we are here to help her in anyway we can.

> I would be interested in knowing her age now, and if she remains as active as
> when she was a teen.  I noticed her location is a Stronghold, which if memory
> serves me is located on a military base? If she would prefer, she can send me
> a private missive in reply.  I hope you are still enjoying our strange little Society,
> it seems to have so much for most of us, and not quite as much for some.........
> HE Caterina

Yes, a Stronghold is located on a military base.  The Stronghold of 
FalconRidge is located at Altus AFB, in Altus, Oklahoma.  We are 15 
members strong currently including the children.  Our group is mostly 
family oriented.   When Elspeth and her sister Gwyneth joined our 
group (actually they are founding members, the only ones left here 
besides Gorm and myself), they were young (13 and 11), but acted 
older, so most of us treated them like young ladies and not 
children (In fact we were politely asked not to call them 
and their friend, Arianne, teenagers, and thus started calling them 
"The Ladies").  There was a boy the same age as Gwyneth, whose whole 
family joined at the same time, and he was treated more like a child 
because he acted like one.

But, I have seen people talk with Elspeth, and Gwyneth too, and seem 
to be treating them as full adults, talking over points of garb 
making and really listening to what the girls were saying (they both 
do good research), what they did at the last event they went to, 
etc., until someone points out to them the girls' ages.  Then I see a 
definite change in their "attitude", "the girls" really must try to 
do it this way because "they" really don't know what they are talking 
about,.... How do I put this politely??  

They just seem to turn the girls off.  All of a sudden, they have 
no time for the girls, even if Elspeth is asking them about their 
garb or a point of court etiquette.  All of a sudden, they're just 
children, and I've even seen a couple of people try the "you are just 
children, go fetch water, go carry something, go work in the 
kitchen, go play somewhere else" attitude with them.  They do and 
have done their share of work, as has and does Gorm (who is 21 now) 
and their age does not/did not make them "children".  If a person who 
is 14 or 18 or 35 is acting like a CHILD, then treat them like a 
child.  But if the same aged person is acting like an ADULT, then 
treat them with respect and respond to them like an ADULT.

My opinions only, but there are some out there that would agree with 
me I hope.

Helen Brown
HL Hellen Bales MacQueene
Stronghold of FalconRidge, Kingdom of Ansteorra
browns at
Altus, Oklahoma

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