ANST - Nobility..

[Timothy A. McDaniel]

On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Laury Torrence <J-LTorrence at worldnet.att.net>
wrote:
> I can see the reasoning behind Landeds ranking above Peerages, as
> they are the direct representatives of the Crown.

In period terms, the barons represented nobody but themselves.  The
"direct representatives of the Crown" in England were the sheriffs,
the justiciars, the lords lieutenant, the Wardens of the Marches, the
Captain of Calais, ... some of whom happened to be barons, but that
wasn't necessarily a correlation.  (OK, the Earl of Northumbria was
almost always Warden of the East March, but that's because it was a
damned fool idea to have anyone but the Percy have the job there.)

In the SCA?  It may be mere unarguable opinion (as in "de gustibus non
disputantam est"), but despite the talk of "direct representatives",
I've never really seen a landed baron/ess do something that can be
interpreted as being the representative of the Crown.  If the Crown
wants to say or do something, they do or say it themselves.  Sure, the
landed baron/esses hand out some kingdom awards, but the Crown could
delegate anyone to do that if they liked.  The armigerous baronial
service orders?  Tho' Corpora says royalty has to approve armigerous
awards in advance, I see them as the gift of the baron/ess and Corpora
ought to be ignored.

> And even though we as CB's also represent the Crown (in a roundabout
> way)

*That* I don't see at all.  I've never seen a CB do anything as CB,
nor heard them speak publicly as CB.  CB appears to me to be like the
Iris, say -- here's a nice widget without any duties or privileges
(except precedence and spiffy danglies).

> Therefore the place assigned to us in the OP seems to be about
> right.  I understand your notion though, you're thinking too
> literally, and in the context of medieval chivalric code.

Is it really being "too literal" to want to do as our noble ancestors
did, in an organization based on the Middle Ages and Renaissance?  God
forbid!  All other things being equal (effort, safety, laws, health,
certain modern ideas of equality), I think the period way is superior
to the non-period way.

I don't understand the "therefore" clause above -- I don't see the
premises involved (if A then B, A -> B and all that).

Is it that representatives of the Crown ought to outrank all others?
That's hardly the case now in the SCA: dukes, counts, and viscounts
aren't representatives, yet they rank high.  In England, the situation
is similar with royal relatives and peers and their relatives.
Younger sons of dukes, for example, rank just about viscounts, and as
of circa 1900 (based on an act temp. Henry VIII) outranked 19
precedence levels of royal officials, from the bishops (arguable as
"royal officials") down to the Masters in Lunacy (!).  If England of
all places doesn't hold by such a principle, why should we?

If someone wants to advance merit as a reason for precedence, then
I'll again point out SCA ex-royalty, who got their ranks by having a
hot tourney one day (or an opposite-sex buddy who did) and not
violating the rules (or if they did, it was corrected quickly or it
wasn't too blatant for people to swallow).  In period terms, the most
meritorious people were monks, yet they had no earthly honors.  Lord
Melbourne said, about the Order of the Garter, "I like the Garter;
there is no damned merit in it".  Why does the Lord Great Chamberlain
rank just below the Lord Privy Seal and above the Lord High Constable?
Because.  The Ranger Marcus, on Babylon 5, said something to the
effect of how horrible it would be if everything bad that happened to
you was because you deserved it; he took great comfort in the
fundamental unfairness of the Universe.

So knights are in direct fealty and frequent contact with the Crown,
and barons may get their Court Barony and never see a king again.
I say "And?  Barons should outrank knights because they did.".

Daniel de Lincolia, sounding like a case-hardened conservative!
-- 
Tim McDaniel (home); Reply-To: tmcd at crl.com; 
if that fail, tmcd at austin.ibm.com is my work address.
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