ANST - Re: we NEED a new site!

j'lynn yeates jyeates at bga.com
Fri May 1 08:09:07 PDT 1998


On 30 Apr 98 at 2:40, James Crouchet wrote:
 
> I can add the information that in central Texas the best price you
> can expect to find for a 100 acre plot is about $1500 per acre.

wish i could find something decent in that range ... been looking
 
> I sure someone out there can tell me how their friend's cousin Hank
> got his land for just $5 per acre from some really old guy who
> wasn't too bright. Don't bother, we are not likely to find that old
> guy.

one option, research tax records and look for old commercial & church 
camps that are going bankrupt .. but look closely and make sure that 
it's not something inherent in the land that is causing the 
fund-drain or that there isn't something *major* looming (in a actual 
case, a damn on site that contained the lake that was a major drawing 
card that was not up to state (not texas) specifications ... that 
required major studies, permits, re-engineering, etc.  this was a 
"unknown" that the time of purchase that has caused major grief 
since.
 
> That $1500 price per acre goes up rapidly if: 
> 
> - it is near water
> - it is near a town
> - it is on a major highway
> - we buy a smaller plot
> - there are any improvements (roads, sewer system, water wells, 
>   electric)
> - there is anything particularly nice about the land.
> 
> Any of these would bring the price up to the $2500 to $4000 range.
> Several added together (e.g. if the land had a well, septic tank and
> electric, on a creek near Marble Falls) it would be even more. Near
> a city, much, MUCH more.

about the exact range i have been seeing in the ranch lands i have 
been looking into for my father.  i favor S/SW of austin - 45-60 
miles out (*expensive*) but have widened scope to north and into the 
east (we're looking for something that will support a decent horse 
herd)
 
> So, we are talking about no less than $150,000 for raw land in a
> fairly out of the way place. For what we would really want we are
> probably looking at a figure more like $350,000.

about the ballpark i have been running into in my research ...

> As reported earlier, Trimeris has a few thousand bucks after years
> of fund raising. We would have to do a MUCH better job of fund
> raising before we could even afford to maintain -- let alone buy --
> such a piece of land.

a major and important facet usually overlooked.  there's usually a 
decent initial support level that falls off quickly ... but to make 
this a "go" they have to be consistant over time.
 
> A surcharge on each site fee is the only thing I have heard that
> would come close to raising that kind of money, and it would still
> take years. Mean time, we would be taxed (I think) on any cash we
> retained as our tax reports came due each year. 

in a word NO.  we here in Ansteorra made our wishes known about being 
"taxed" in the past and i doubt that the mindset has changed that 
much.  how do handle the people that catagorically refuse to pay such 
a "surcharge" ??? deny them access so the SCA at a kingdom level so 
any the "land support" faction is allowed to "play".  i seriously 
doubt that this would survive the first challange at the BOD level 
and could possibly get really nasty if it were challenged in outside 
court.

> What would really chap me though is that SCA inc. would own our
> land. They could SELL it at any time without our consent. They could
> kick us out of our own site. They could decide the site rules. WE
> would have to ask THEM for permission to build on it and they could
> tear down what we build if they wish. If we ever seceded from the
> SCA our land would NOT go with us. I am not interested in giving the
> SCA inc. a quarter of a million dollar asset that I put my blood
> sweat and tears into.

doubt that it would turn into a TRF scenario (was there and watched 
it all ...).  best option to make it work, would be a outside entity 
chartered to buy and maintain the land.  they could in turn make it 
available to whoever they choose - SCA (but not necessarily limited 
to such ...) but then you are back to sqaure one and using someone 
elses land ... but then circles are often that way.
 
> Ok, so we set up a separate NFP organization. Ok, HOW do you raise
> the money? If you charge fee at each *SCA* event, that money will
> legally belong to the SCA. They are not going to simply let us walk
> away with a quarter of a million dollars of corporate money.
> Donations? Raffles? Auctions? Trimeris has raised maybe $5k over the
> years with these tactics. Only a few hundred thousand dollars to
> go...

how about a "corporation" ... that sells "shares / stock" ... with a
real BOD that is responsive to the share-holders.  thsi approach would
clearly allow those to choose to support / not support ... and if so,
know that their "investments" are protected.  

> Getting back to costs, let's not forget that we would NOT be 
> satisfied with the land as we bought it. It would require 
> improvements that would probably cost us almost as much as the land.

amen! ... not easy, not cheap (grew up on a working ranch before the 
family went "urban")
 
> The good news is I checked on taxes and that would only be a few
> hundred dollars a year, assuming we did what was necessary to
> maintain an agricultural exemption.

a major consideration me and my father are paying attention to in our 
plans ... but since that's the primary focus (horses and maybe some 
large scale gardening, it will be a simple matter ... he didn't 
understand my insistance on bee hives until i introduced him to the 
pleasures of well brewed meads (grin)
 
> As for renting out the site, that involves a whole host of costs,
> legal and tax considerations. What's more, many of the things we
> would have to do to make the site rent-able are in opposition to,
> unnecessary for or at least delay-able for using the site for SCA
> purposes. If we plan to rent it out we will also have to go with a
> more expensive piece of land because remote locations do not rent
> well.

usually anything withing about a hours drive of a major city is 
acceptable ... don't forget the rather sizable insurance requirements 
the site would bear if it were being made available to large outside 
groups (and people grouse at perceived "restrictions" ... many of 
which are required by the insurance coverage the site owner(s) muct 
carry these days)
 
> Understand, renting it not free. It is not all gravy. There are real
> costs involved. If we spend the money to make it rent-able and then
> only rent it out a couple times a year, we LOSE money. Someone with
> experience OWNING camps-for-rent would have to run the figures to
> tell us how much our nut would be. It might be cheaper to just keep
> it for our use.

one group i know of, bought land and found the same thing ... they 
had to keep it filled reqularly to make ends meet.  this requires a 
higher level of maintanence and operational expenses.  plus you end 
up with the "politics of rental" ... when the primary users find 
some group unacceptable for some reason, or the groupos start making 
unreasinable demands to use the site, or are simply too large / 
destructive for the site (***NO*** "Crash Worship" shows !!!!! ... 
grin) 
 
> Someone pointed out that location would be a big issue. I suggest
> that the first site should be in the Central region as it is, well,
> central. But as a kingdom we would have to agree to continue to work
> toward acquiring sites until every region had one.

one *might* be possible, but one for every region?  nice dream, 
but i doubt that it is reasonable to think that there are suffiecient 
resources to build and maintain more than one major site. 
 
> Alternately, each region could collect the money for THEIR regional
> site until they had enough to buy the site they want. That would, of
> course, mean a MUCH longer time before the first site was acquired,
> but also control would be closer to home.

that would divide already minimal resources and insure that the 
projects would ultimately fail.  if the project is to be done at all, 
better that it be attempted at a kingdom level.
 
'wolf

... carpe ichthae
============================================================================
Go to http://www.ansteorra.org/lists.html to perform mailing list tasks.



More information about the Ansteorra mailing list