ANST - scrolls

[Dr Tiomoid of Angle]

--- "Mark.S Harris" <rsve60 at email.sps.mot.com> wrote:

> Fra Tadhg Liath wrote:
> > Of course, there is nothing to require us to adopt either the size
> > (which ranged from postcard size to about the size of a hand towel)
> > or the artistic sensibilities of period charters -- period grants
> > of arms, for example, were fancy enough to satisfy all but the 
> > most ornatophilic of SCA folk. It all depends on what analogy we
> > draw with our period models. Right now we use period charters,
> > which I think the most appropriate analogical model. Other 
> > positions are certainly sustainable.

> Do you mean that some period grants of arms were illuminated?

Certainly. At minimum, they contained an emblason of the arms being
granted. Quite often they contained the arms of the sovereign making
the grant, and in later times contained the official arms of the
officers of arms involved. I've seen period grants that included
historiated figures, such as a herald in his tabard, and so forth. Plus
one quite often finds the little decorative touches that Sir Alrek
seems to like so much.

> I do have a file with the text of a period grant-for-life which
> doesn't indicate that there were other decorations.

I'm not sure what you mean by "grant-for-life". Is this a grant of ARMS
"for life"? That would be quite unusual -- arms were a species of real
property and I don't know of any instances in which they were granted
for a period of less than "in perpetuity". Do you just have the text,
or do you have an actual facsimile of the grant document?

> One interesting point is that it was done in two parts. The giver
> kept one and the receiver got one. This is probably a different 
> type of grant than that of which you speak.

That sounds more like an indenture between private parties than an
official grant of the type to which I refer.

> Is there a need that all of our award scrolls be of a particular
> type?

Not especially, depending on what one means by "of a particular type"
and what model we use for "award scrolls". If we separate the "official
document" given out by the Crown in Court from the "display product"
eventually produced by the College of Scribes, that would perforce
entail at least two different "types"; and of course I suppose that
everyone would expect higher ranks to receive different and more
elaborate treatments.

> If there are grounds for an illuminated period grants of arms
> scrolls, perhaps we could use such a format for our grants of arms
> and the clerical (mainly calligraphy) style for others. We use 
> different regalia for different awards.

The problem with that is that the current SCA structure of awards
linked to various levels of "grants of arms" is not only non-Period but
awkward in its execution. Ideally we ought to go back and redo the
whole system from scratch. Since that's not going to happen, we need to
figure out how to do what we want to do with in the current structure
that does the least amount of violence to period practice. This is even
harder than it sounds, and it sounds damned difficult.

> Why do you think period charters are the most appropriate model
> for our award scrolls?

Because charters were invariably used for grants of titles and
perpetual rights, which I think the closest period analogy to what we
do with respect to awards. That's just my view, of course, and while I
think it a rational and documentable view, I could probably be
persuaded otherwise by a good case.

> (Oh yes, the grant-for-life text and description is in this file in
> the SCRIBAL ARTS section of my Florilegium if anyone is interested:
> http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/rialto/Grant-example-msg.html )

Yeah, that's an indenture between two private parties. Royal grants,
which is what we're dealing with, were similar in strucure (as were all
period documents of this kind) but substantially different in the
relationships between the two parties. And a private indenture wouldn't
have any more decoration in period than a modern business contract
would today.


Fra Tadhg Liath OFT
The Grumpiest Pelican
SCITIS IMPLETI * NOSCE IGNOTIS

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