ANST - Re: Scrolls & Charters - Thank you

[Karie Mitchell]

Master Tadgh wished me to post my message to this list.  Consider it done!

Allessandre

Master Tadgh said:

>I'll respond to it there, so that others can take advantage of our
>discussion, and participate

>In period, chanceries didn't worry about "developing new charters",
>except in an incidental way in response to changing legal
>conditions... <snip>  If Ansteorra strictly followed period practice >in 
>this regard, the kingdom would have a set of standard texts that >everyone 
>would be obliged to follow and that would be changed only >for good and 
>sufficient "legal" (in SCA terms) reasons.

I think I like this idea.

>But the SCA environment is more complicated. Awards aren't just "SCA
>legal documents", they're also (after a fashion) prizes to celebrate
>achievement, and people want them to look nice. Hence the urge, which
>is perfectly natural, to add as much embellishment as practicable.

I understand this point and I think this is where I agree with you.  I
suggest that since they are "SCA"-oriented, rather than "a specific
culture"-oriented, they might be a more "generic" language.  We are
recognizing achievements in the SCA and not a victory over the
Saxons at Hastings.

>And, because the SCA millieu covers such a broad geographic and
>temporal range, people have an (equally natural) desire to have >something 
>that is congruent with their personal interests -- a Norse >persona is a 
>Norse persona for a reason, and such a person would >obviously be more 
>pleased with something in Norse runes than in >Latin miniscule.

And writing a document is far easier (no matter what the script) than
illuminating it and writing it.  But do most scribes prefer calligraphy or 
do they prefer illumination?  How do we encourage more authentic charters 
and allow for their desire for creativity?

>So how do we reconcile these two apparently inconsistent objectives?
>One way would be to separate the "SCA legal" aspect of an award from
>the "display" aspect. The kingdom has a legitimate interest in
>standards and uniformity, and the appropriate forum for the
>expression of that interest is when awards are actually made, in >public 
>court and in official pronouncements. The individual >recipient has a 
>legitimate interest in receiving something that, by >its appearance, 
>reflects both the reasons why they are active in the >SCA and the pride 
>that they take in the accomplishments airising >from that activity.

I agree that people would like to have a "prize", however I think there are 
better ways to do that.  I have often thought, especially after having heard 
Mistress Serena rant, that I would like a scroll done authentically, in 
black and red, as most legal documents were.  Then I would request a page 
done in the manner of a "book of prayer", (like the Duc du Berry 
illuminations?) with a prayer on one side and the picture on the other, 
commemorating the event of my elevation (to whatever level).

Another point is that we don't take the time to do insignia properly.  So 
much could be done with that aspect as well.  Most of the time it's hung 
around our necks until we bend over from the weight, or choke!  I think it 
would be wonderful if people (including me) could find other ways of 
displaying our rank.  It might be interesting to put our talents to that 
aspect, instead of the colorful scrolls.

>So: I suggest that an appropriate resolution would involve a two-part
>system. One part would be geared toward what happens in court, the
>other part toward what hangs on the recipient's wall. The latter need
>not be as authentic as the former, since it has a much more >restricted 
>venue -- an inauthentic glitzy Sable Crane "scroll" >hanging in someone's 
>living room isn't going to have the scandalous >effect on the Medieval 
>Atmosphere Of The SCA as what is announced in >court at an event in front 
>of God and everybody. It seems to me that >such a division would have a lot 
>to recommend it.

I agree with this point.  Would you change the wording of the text?
Is it reasonable?  Or are there problems there too?  I have read little in 
the way of legal texts or charters so I rely on your expertise.

<snip>
>A simple form involving only calligraphy (with perhaps some >calligraphic 
>embellishment, as was often done in period, for Real >Important Awards) 
>would be much easier to prepare in time for Court >than the current 
>labor-intensive painted "scrolls". <snip>

>This would take a process of adjustment in the College of Scribes to
>get people lined up to do the actual work, with plenty of time to >work out 
>such details as specifications and reimbursement for >materials, variety of 
>forms for use with particular personae, etc.,

<snip>

I just had a thought, perhaps one of the things that could be done to
make it "special" is to have the King and Queen, sign it, right before
their eyes.  I am remembering a scene from Elizabeth R, where she is to give 
Robert Dudley some kind of title and estate (Duke of ?).  All she needs to 
do is sign the document in front of her.  She refuses, causing a scene of 
course, but I think it would be neat if instead of something "pretty", you 
knew that this was legitimate recognition of your efforts, because by God, 
you had the King's hand right there on your Scroll/Charter!  I know there 
are logistic nightmares to that but it's something to keep in mind...

<snip>
>I'm working on a detailed proposal regarding implementing such a
>system.  But I thought that perhaps I'd present the skeleton of it >here to 
>see what sort of concerns people raise, since I'd like to >address them in 
>the proposal when it's ready for debut.

I like your ideas and I hope that you might be able to use some of my
own.  I am very interested in helping this change come about.  I too would 
like to see more authentic charters and scrolls being used.  I know that my 
handwriting is not very good, but are there other ways I might be able to 
assist?

Sincerely,

Allessandre Desiderio


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