ANST - Hated nonperiod term
Margo Lynn Hablutzel
Hablutzel at compuserve.com
Tue Jan 5 06:44:31 PST 1999
Phillipa asked:
>> How did the Victorians come up with the term "remove" anyway?
The definition in my dictionary (see below for details on this wonderful
book) says: "Of dishes: To be replaced or followed by, after removal
1840." So the use with dishes is squarely Victorian. And it may be
related tothe dish iteself being called a "remove", meaning a large platter
used to place food before people and take it away again.
Ronnie said, in part:
>> The list seems to work primarily on modern English usage.
Except that modern usage is to say "course" and not "remove."
>> So I'd guess the authenticity mavins would use "remove"
>> properly (though not exclusively, since "course" also works
>> modernly) here, and their teeth should only itch when they
>> feel a term shows up in the wrong age and locale.
But "remove" is not used in modern English (at least, not in the countries
where I have lived and/or visited), and it is, as noted above, post-period
for dishes and meals.
>> Please also satisfy my curiosity: when was the earliest, where
>> and why, was "remove" first used in connection with feasting;
>> and if you will, provide the authority?
Book stated below. Above is the bit on when "remove" was used for food,
assuming you meant realtime and not SCA-wise. That's on page 1701. On
page 410 we have "course" which is defined as "Each of the successive parts
or members of a series" and "A planned series of actions or proceedings: as
of diet etc.," the former ME and the latter 1605, and one of the sample
usages includes "A dinner of many courses."
>> Anyone out there have an OED that tracks the entire eytemology?
I do, rather it is a simile volume dedicated solely to etymology, which is
one reason I know using "remove" is wrong. This is THE OXFORD UNIVERSAL
DICTIONARY ON HISTORICAL PRINCIPLES, Little, Fowler, and Coulson, rev./ed.
Onions, Third Ed. Rev. with Addenda, Oxford, Clarendon Press 1955.
Admittedly, I did not look on the period records to see what they say, but
my memory is that they use course as well for each division of foods. I
believe that Dame Alys Katherine used some of that in her article.
---= Morgan
|\ THIS is the cutting edge of technology!
8+%%%%%%%%I=================================================---
|/ Morgan Cain * Hablutzel at compuserve.com
Barony of the Steppes * Ansteorra
(and sometimes in Atlantia)
daytime: margolh at nt.com
"Goodness what nice diamonds."
"Goodness had nothing to do with 'em, honey." -- Mae West
============================================================================
Go to http://lists.ansteorra.org/lists.html to perform mailing list tasks.
More information about the Ansteorra
mailing list