ANST - limits on reigns

[Paul Mitchell]

Galen here...
My, this thread has come a long way since I last posted on it.

>Sir Kief wrote:
>> 
>> Heilsa Stefan...!
>> 
>> You have asked questions:
>
>And you answered some of them. And I wish to reply. Please be aware that
>in some cases I am bringing up points for further discussion and may not
>hold all these viewpoints closely. ie: I'd rather keep this on a sane
>level, folks.
>
>> Be it noted that I am not answering for HE Rebekah.
>> 
>> >I'm curious. Why do you feel the test of the Crown List is sufficent?
>> >What is the test?
>> 
>> The test is one of skill in arms. Stamina and tactical ability. As well, it
>> is the test of patience and the dedication of an individual to train long
>> and hard to gain the needed skills to win the tournament with honor and
>> chivalry.
>
>And passing this test proves one is the best of the candidates for the
>job of leading a large and complex, multi-sided volunteer organization?
>Does it exclude a large number of better qualified possiblities?

Better-qualified in what respects?  Certainly there are better
administrators extant than many who site the throne, but the
Crown is not an administrative post.  There are some who are more
courteous than some who sit the throne, but a tournament provides
some impressive tests of courtesy under pressure, which stand
our rulers in very good stead, I assure you.

Likewise, choosing our rulers in tournaments protects us, for
the most part, from rulers who might place overmuch emphasis on
pleasing various interest groups who put them in power; the winner
of Crown Tourney usually does a good job of remembering he rules
_all_ of Ansteorra. 

>> >Do you think it proves leadership ability? Does it
>> >prove the ability to work with others to get things done? Does it
>> >indicate any knowledge of the Middle Ages and the SCA other than
>> >armored combat?
>> 
>> You will notice, good my friend and neighbor, that it is always one of the
>> Chivalry that wins the Crown Lists in Ansteorra. (The three exceptions were
>> Inman, Sigmund, and Patrick Michael.) 
>
>Then why is the list wieghted to give the Knights an advantage? I really
>don't see that it is needed. In other words, why not have a completely
>random pairing system? Why is it setup so that Knights do not fight
>Knights in the first round? I assume that after the first round that all
>the pairing is done completely at random.

First, tradition.  Second, because we believe that to be king, you
have to be able to beat the knights.

>> This seeming monopoly of the Crown
>> Lists is for good reason. To be a member of the Chivalry in Ansteorra does
>> require good leadership skills. 
>
>Why? Is this something that is required for entry into the Order? Is this
>something that is looked for? How is it wieghted against the ability
>to win on the tournament field? I've never been in a Peerage Circle, so
>I have little idea of what really happens. I do have my own ideals on
>this though.

Demonstrated leadership ability if of great importance to
both the Chivalry and the Pelicans, as well as, I understand,
the Laurels.  Many knighthoods have been delayed as otherwise
qualified men sought to prove their leadership ability.  And
sometimes leadership ability has brought recognition to fighters
who were not always as skilled in single combat as one might
hope (but I'm not speaking of knights here, only of the importance
of good leadership skills in a fighter).

>> You will also notice that most all the
>> Chivalry in this Kingdom hold one or more service awards. ...
>> Overall the members of the Chivalry are well rounded
>> individuals that give of themselves most generously. IMO I feel that
>> Ansteorra is blessed with some of the truest Chivalry that exist in the
>> Known World.
>
>Yes, this is often the case. There have been exceptions. But this 
>well-rounded attribute is not required as far as I can see. I think we
>have actually been quite lucky in Ansteorra.

It's not luck.  We select for it.  Despite our reputation as
stick-jocks, we actually don't have much patience for stick-jocks.
It _is_ required of knights, in law, tradition and practice, and
this versatility is a quality that's vital in our rulers.

>> >Does it prevent a small minority from monopolizing
>> >the decision making?
>> 
>> The "small minority" (this is somewhat redundant) that makes the decisions
>> is far larger than you think. It includes all the Greater and Lesser
>> Officers of State, the Territorial Barons and Baronesses, the Regional
>> Officers, the Deputies of the Greater and Lesser Officers, 
>
>Well, a minority is anything less than 50%. I would hardly call this group
>of decision makers close to this, even expanded with your list. 
>
>I note that all of these are picked by the crown and like a fraternity or
>sorority are a self-selecting group.

Except that the terms of Great Officers stretch to two years, 
terms of landed nobility are indefinite, and kings rule only
six months.  Also, add to the list above all the active peers,
and you get a crowd whose membership has been influenced by
_every_ ruler Ansteorra ever had, each of whom consults others
in his own immediate circle (and for the officers, their
subordinates at the regional and local level), for a geometrically 
larger-still group that has influence on decision-making.

The effect of choosing a new ruler is such a fashion is
very often to break up any appearance (or reality) of
"packing the court" so that as a result, a wide variety 
of viewpoints gets injected into the decision-making process.

>> the populace at
>> large (If they care to give input. And many like yourself do care!), as well
>> as the Crowns and Crown Heirs. Remember that the decisions of the Crown can
>> and are reviewed by the BoD if there is sufficent cause.
>
>By the time the BoD gets involved, much damage has already been done. And
>I heard many people complain that the BoD is a self-selecting group. That
>was voiced in this very thread earlier.

Yes, but it's a different topic, and if you're looking for
someone not appointed by the Crown, there they are.
 
>> >It is a pretty unique method for choosing an organisations leaders and
>> >has worked reasonably well, with only a few failures in this kingdom
>> >and others, but it can be improved. I am loath to say we should throw
>> >it out as I've not seen any alternatives I like better.
>> 
>> It is a quite unique method for choosing leaders of an organization. The
>> Society is somewhat unique in have a dual-tier organizational structure. The
>> Crowns are just the manifestion of the "Medival/Renaissance" side of the
>> coin. Given the original flavor of the SCA and the "Dream" that it
>> engendered, it would be good to revel in the gift we have of "Crown Heads of
>> State". How so very droll it would be to be governed by someone that was
>> voted in on a popularity contest, or that bought the station because they
>> could.
>
>Yes and if the crowns stuck to just the Medieval/Renaissance side of things
>then there probably wouldn't be the concern. But they don't. With 'The King's
>Word is Law" they have much more power than just affecting the medieval side
>and atmosphere of events.

Actually, you'd be surprised at how good they are at setting
priorities for the "backstage" work as well.  At Gulf War, for
instance, we needed someone to make a decision.  Would we fight
through the rain?  Would we risk the lightning in our helms,
and endure the water in our tents?  Would the weather improve
_enough_?  Was the risk of injury or property damage _too_ great?
I watched our Good King Gunthar consult with the other kings, 
the local law enforcement authorities, and the National Weather
Service, consider the happiness and well-being of thousands of
people, and make a decision.  Only kings could make such decisions.
Trimaris' king didn't bother, he agreed to abide by whatever
the Meridian and Ansteorran kings agreed on.  So the kings met,
and they made a decision, and we all accepted it.  I am sure
that it was the right decision.  I am also sure that if a 
Seneschal or Autocrat made such a large-scale decision without
the Crown to back him, it wouldn't go over well.
 
>> And I certainly would like to read your thoughts on improving our methods of
>> choosing our Rulers.
>
>I think a minor change to our system would be to adopt this proposal about
>reign limitations. Perhaps limit it to two reigns, even. Past crowns still
>have a lot of power as advisors to the current crown. I do think that some
>of Pug's suggestions on handling the consorts should be used to modify the
>original proposal.

I disagree.  I feel that idea behind the proposal is that
because some kingdoms have sometimes had problems, that
the entire SCA is broken.  I repeat my suggestion that
this proposal is something the BoD should impose on a 
kingdom-by-kingdom basis, as needed, and for a limited
time, like 5 years.

>I do have a lot of respect for most of our past crowns. The job can be a
>rough one. If folks don't think so, they should take a look at some of the
>comments in my Florilegium file crown-cost-msg. I think we should come up
>with some ways to make the job easier. Perhaps take them out of having to
>attend Peerage Circles which seems to take up a lot of their time. Why must
>the peerage candidate be approved by the crown? Why not just by the circle?
>But then that might cause more political battles in the circles.

The effect of this would be to severely limit the power
of the Crown, and enhance the power of the peerages.  It
would most particularly enhance the ongoing ability
of certain loud-mouthed agenda-driven politicians
(me, for instance) to impose their own standards and
values on the kingdom.  Can't say I like this idea
Stefan, but I do agree with the motivation behind it,
making life easier for the Crown.  I'm just not sure
how practical that is, on an institutional level.

>> Waes Thu Hael kinsman...
>> HE Sir Kief av Kiersted, Pelican, Lion of Ansteorra
>
>Lord Stefan li Rous

- Galen of Bristol
Viscount, KSCA, Pel., etc.

_____________________________________________________
John 6:54-56

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