ANST - A&S - does utility count?

[Fopdejour1 at aol.com]

I missed the first post by Don Christian, but I wanted to respond to this 
one, as it touches on a subject I care about.


In a message dated 5/9/99 1:26:40 AM !!!First Boot!!!, Baronman at aol.com 
writes:

<< Take the cart out of the conversation and you have just described my 
 experience with A&S entries in the SCA.  Wood work - just learning how but 
if 
 you make a box with out dovetail joints- kiss any points goodby even if evey 
 square inch is covered with celtic knot work carved into it. No proper 
 joints- no points. <<

I am afraid Your Excellency that I must disagree, I am by no means an expert 
judge, but I have done my faire share of judging competitons with and without 
Laurel guidence. Yes, you will lose a bit if the workmanship of the box (or 
in my case, doublet) is not superior.  But, that falls under the catagory of 
Workmanship/ Technical skill or Authenticity of Techniques with a max of 5 
points to be deducted for each.  The majority of the point deductions will be 
lost due to inadequate documentaion.
     

	>>Pewter casting - made a belt buckle and matching brooch for my 
kilt- 
 designs carved into the  cast was an early pict design- design and brooch 
not 
 compatible as far as same time period- kiss it goodby.<<

Again, this goes back to the documentation mentioned earlier...all you have 
to do is justify why you did what you did, and most judges will be satisfied. 
 eg. "I put this pictish design on my belt buckle, even though it is not in 
the same time period as the buckle design, because I prefered it to other 
designs I have seen."  It simply shows that you are aware of your art as it 
is applied to it's medieval or pre-medieval counterpart.  If a judge still 
knocks you for it, then there's nothing more you can do except move on and 
accept judging is subjective at best.
     

	>>This is one of the main reasons why I don't DO A&S compititions any 
more 
 (except in my own Barony).  I make things that appear to be period and 
 functional for my own enjoyment, with no desire to be flayed alive and 
cooked 
 over the coals at an A&S compitition.  <<

Je regret!!!  I participated in judging your wooden box at Bordermarch's 
Autumn Melees and I thought it was lovely.  I am sorry that some bad 
expriences have given you a bad taste for A&S, but I encourage you to 
continue entering A&S competitions.  It is from the criticsim that one 
improves one's art.
      

	>>OH!!!- I forgot the stained glass ( I have done a 6 foot by 6 foot 
 stained glass window for my house and a couple for my neighbors, but if I do 
 a reproduction of the windows from Edinburg castle chapel, it's suddenly not 
 period techinque- No points for that.  <<

Again, documentation....documentation....documentation

     >>Same story with leather work.  I have a Thistle in casting and in 
 leatherwork- my ability and technique haven't changed over the years, but 
the 
 judging has. <<

Of course it has, it would have to to remain competitive A&S wise with the 
other kingdoms of the known world.  


>> Does this mean that if I were judged today on the projects from 
 several years ago (the ones that got me my Thistles) that I never would meet 
 the requirements for those awards today? <<
     
	Numero Uno, there are no set requirements (to my knowledge) for a 
thistle, it is given at the crown's discretion.  Secondly, You are proabaly 
right, the quality of the pieces you produced when you received your thistle 
might not compare to the quality of the pieces turned out by an artisan who 
just recieved his/her thistle in woodwork last weekend.  
	The simple reason being that more is expected out of artisans now 
than 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago because there are so many more artisans.  It's 
the whole concept of competition,  the more you have entering; the better the 
quality has to be.  If not then stagnation sets in.


>>If you were on the list a couple of years ago, you would have heard this 
 same story debated to death.  At that time I was called a grumpy old 
 discontent ( which I am when it comes to SCA A&S compititions).  Been there- 
 done that.
 
  Baron Bors of Lothian >>


I am so sorry to hear from perfectly wonderful artisans that they are 
disillusioned with workings of A&S competitions, as it can be a wonderfully 
rewarding part of the SCA.  Your Excellency and others, I beseech 
you...please continue entering outside of your own group.  That is where the 
educating and betterment of ones art takes place, from the constructive 
criticsm of others.
	I hope this has helped answer some questions or concerns that others 
may have had or had been raised by the previous post.  


Ld. Charles de Bourbon
apprentice to Mistress Charla


PS  Judges are not monsters out to get people, they are learning too.  
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