ANST - Looking for the heat (still long)

[Mark&Sue]

What a GREAT convrsation!  I'd sure rather be having it in person...writing out
everything is so tedious.  I'm snipping alot here to limit the length
...preserving only what I am answering to.

Dieterich Kempenich von Eltz as Casey&Coni wrote:

> I think that this was perhaps once true but no longer applies due to events
> that cator specifically to the A&S participants.  To wit, the rise in the
> number of non-fighting events has really been impressive over the last few
> years.  Laurels Prize Tourney, Kingdom A&S, Gulf War A&S, Candlemasses,
> Yules, Fall Courts, Feast of the Minstrel, Dance Symposiums, and the varied
> and sundry academys and collegiums leap to mind.

> As for encouraging artists... what do you propose?  Personally, I think that
> there is a lot of recognition availiable and potential for awards in the
> arts.  Short of major sca-wide reform as to how we earn titles and select
> leaders, I don't see an obvious way to further encourage them... but then,
> they should be working for the love of their art and the pleasure it gives
> them, right? ;)  So what's your solution?

If they were working for love and pleasure, there would be no need for
competitions 8>).  By encouragement, I didn't mean titles and awards, they serve
a good purpose validating the acheivements of an artist.  I meant rather the
more individualistic type of encourgement.  For instance, here in Bjornsborg our
MoAS has been focusing on a featured artist each month.  An article by/about the
individual appears in the newsletter; they are invited to do a one-man-show
display of their work at that month's populace meeting and asked to teach a
class in their speciality during that month.  This provides a 100% positive
experience without the trauma of competition.

> You continued...
>
> >Don't you think that publishing names would encourage those named to make
> the extra
> >effort to honor their commitments.  If a judge reneges on their promise to
> judge, don't
> >go hunting for *any* substitute, ask the ARTISTS who present is qualified
> to judge.
>
> I think it's nearly impossible to publish a complete list of judges prior to
> an event for the simple fact that you *cannot* predict what arts will turn
> up to be judged.

Yes, I can certainly see that.  This is an ideal example on why some sort of
certification of judges would be so useful.  If artists were aware that a
certified judge would be judging their work it would go a long way towards
easing competition anxiety.  The event announcement could simply say:

Certified judging for the following categories:  yadda yadda yadda.  Other
categories judged ad hoc.

>  We have many artisans in this kingdom who work in media
> that _nobody else is versed in_.

That speaks to the wonderful diversity in the kingdom.  It is these very folk
who should set the standard for certifcation in their field.  They may be they
only one NOW, but others will become interested by dint of seeing their unique
works.


> I agree that asking the artist who is qualified to judge is a good idea- an
> idea employed for judging a map at squires recently- and one I'd like to see
> spread about.  The hole in that method is that it lends can lend itself to
> academic nepotism: "I learned how to make whozzywhazzits from Master Whozzy
> himself- just ask him how good I am."

All methods have holes in them. Our choice is to find a hole shape/size we an
live with,

> In the end, you do the best you can do with the personel that turn up and try
> your best to keep the judging in the hands of those who can be objective and
> are most knowledgable about the
> artform and that's that.

Of course you do your best.  But how do you know?  There has been an awful lot
of whining on this list about subjective judging. And no one has defended the
objectivity and impartiality of the majority of judges (if indeed that is the
case).  *Maybe*  it's the competitors who are at fault.  It is easier to blame
the judges than to take a hard look at your own deficiencies.

> Now, I don't happen to be a member of your order, but as both an artist and
> one who has recently had to organize an arts competition I think that the
> situations you have described have largely heard their death knell.

I'm very glad to hear that.  See what old-fogeyism can do 8>D

> The laurels I speak with seem to have a solid grasp on the concept that
> getting
> the best subject matter expert availiable along with a seasoned judge with
> good interpersonal skills is the way to go where competitions are concerned.
> I think that this type of paired judging will for the most part cure the
> problems you describe.

That is a wonderful method.  And I do agree that it will solve many problems.
I'm starting to think that the "disgruntled" artists I'm striving to defend
simply have a greater on-line presence than the seasoned judges (sigh).

> Perhaps a better compromise between this point of view and mine would be for
> the A&S competition coordinator to hit up as many subject matter experts as
> possible to come to the event to help with judging *prior* to the event.
> That way you have your textiles person, your woodworking person, your callig
> and illum person out of the way and the only spots you have to jump through
> hoops to judge would be the oddball entrys.

Good compromise!  The "oddball" entries know that they are unique and so should
be more flexible about their judges.  The mainstream artists would be reassured
that their judges came to judge and were not impressed into duty.  In this
scenario, the autocrat could offer a list of judges by mail or e-mail or website
without taking undo space in the Blackstar.

>   Personally, I'd rather not give an artist the ability to
> pander to the style of any judge... I wanna see what they do in their *own*
> style.

Gee, pandering can show SUCH versitility 8>).  If the artist has the ability to
change their style to impress a particular judge, they must be very good
indeed.  I have more concern for the artist who has a conflict with a judge, or
has little respect for a particular judge.  Knowing who's judging gives them the
choice of entering or not.

>  Also, in regard to a dog show and breed differences, each breed
> has a handbook as to what to look for.  I only *wish* we had such a book for
> the map entry at squires!

It may profit the KMAS to look into the critera handbook produced by the
Midrealm.  I have used it for many years to help me judge categories I was only
marginally familiar with  The beautiful thing about it is that the criteria were
assembled by experts in different fields.  Each set of criteria have a uniform
format that is very easy to adapt to a point system.  The last I knew, copies
were available for sale from the Middle Kingdom Arts Office.

Dieterich, thank you for such meaty argument!  Ah, what good ideas get exchanged
when "reasonable people reason together".

Tamlin




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