ANST - the infinite peerage and the rapier peerage

[Dennis Grace]

Salut Cozyns

Lyonel aisai.

I'm afraid I'm too busy to comment fully on these missives at the moment.  
Pardon me if I hit just a few high points.

My original point, of which I have not lost sight, was that we do not need a 
universal route to peerage.

All involved parties should also remember that Sir Jon's proposal is for an 
Arts of War peerage, not for a rapier peerage.

In response to Kazimir's -
> > >Fighting with Rapiers, tilting at the quintain, and excellence at 
>archery
> > >ARE
> > >documentable medieval and renaissance activities, YET they do not have 
>a
> > >peerage
> > >possibility for PROWESS in them.
> > >
> > >Good examples.

- I noted:

> > Fine.  Backgammon and chess are documentable medieval and renaissance
> > activities, yet they do not have a peearage possibility for prowess in 
>them,
> > either.  Nor would I advocate one.

- and Kazimir riposted:

>Ah, but the difference between rapier and "chess or backgammon" is that one 
>is
>combat and the others are a game.  If rapier is merely a game, then so is
>armored combat.  For all that the three stress head to head competition,
>chess/backgammon are not combat.

But you cannot say the same for SCA Equestrian activities, target archery, 
or thrown weapons competitions.

>I do suggest that there is more current SCA precedent for getting a peerage 
>for
>prowess at chess (as prowess at music, spinning, weaving) than there is for
>prowess at rapier.  And I think that kinda sucks..., to me. ;-)

Ah, but we weren't talking about just rapier.  One of the problems I have 
with this whole Arts of War proposal is the hideous mix of activities being 
considered.  SCA rapier combat is a martial art.  Target archery is not.  
Target archery may be difficult, may require much practice, may tax one's 
nerves and stress one's body, but standing and shooting targets is *not* a 
martial art.  The "prowess" involved in target archery is far narrower of 
scope than that required of a fencer.

I would be happy to open a separate discussion of the merits of a rapier 
peerage.  Nota bene:  this is a separate discussion.

As I noted previously, I have not found much support for said peerage among 
the rapier community.  Here are a few of the arguments against a peerage 
that I've heard from members of that community:

1) All of the White Scarves will expect to be elevated; many who are not 
will be insulted.

2) Though the WS have generally been held to a high standard, members have 
been created in some kingdoms who were decidedly not peerage quality.  The 
argument in favor of this was, "Hey, we aren't peers.  We don't have to meet 
that standard. (I've heard this argument from three different dons, and no I 
won't share their names.)

3) Throughout most of the period in which unarmored rapier combat was 
practiced, knighthood was not offered for weapons mastery.  It would be 
inappropriate for me to be recognized for martial prowess.

4) I've seen how the peers behave, and I don't want that to happen to the 
White Scarf community.

5) The art is not mature SCA-wide. (Sorry, he did not elaborate.)

I'll write out the rest when I can remember them.  Again, these are not my 
arguments, just claims I've heard from within the rapier community.

lo vostre por vos servir
Sir Lyonel Oliver Grace

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