ANST - Precendence (was : Patent of Arms)

[Timothy Rayburn]

--- Trish McCurdy <ladyoftherose at hotmail.com> wrote:
> *sigh*
> 
> The letters Patent is what makes it a Peerage.
> 

This is absolutely correct.

But there is a level of awards above Letters Patent, known as the
Magnate Awards.  It is here that the titles of Baron in Fief, Viscount,
Count, Duke, Prince, Crown Prince, and King (along with their female
counterparts) reside.

The rank of Countess alone is higher than Peers, or other awards,
because it is a member of the Royal Family.  This person is no longer
simply of noble blood, but is part of the actual Royal Family.  To
suggest that a Patent of Arms is needed to give the title respect would
mean that if an unbelted fighter were to win Crown that even as King
(another Magnate level title) he would be considered below the peers of
his Realm.


> A Court Barony carries no rank of it's own.  With it the receipient
> can wear 
> a coronet and have a title, but they are not a Peer.  The Patent
> gives your 
> Royalty a defining line.
> 

For the record, within Ansteorra Court Barony's carry only a Grant of
Arms, not a Patent of Arms.

It is also my opinion that what level of Arms are carried by an award
is irrelevant.  To me what makes an award is a combination of what it
takes to achieve it (which includes how often it is given), and the
character of the people who already hold the award.  This is the
reason, I feel, that the Lion of Ansteorra is held in such high regard
even though it carries no Arms what so ever.  I would go further to say
that this is also why the White Scarf is given the respect it is within
Ansteorra.  In both cases it takes a tremendous amount of work to
recieve it (usually, there are always exceptions), and for the most
part the holders of these awards carry themselves with a dignity that
is not limited by the armigerousness of the award.

> This is one of the reasons several other Kingdom's developed an
> alernate 
> title for former Landed nobles, an example of that is a Thegn and Ban
> Thegn, 
> which carries a GOA to give it rank and presedence.  (That's why my
> other 
> half is a Thegn)
> 

This is a fascinating bit of Interkingdom Anthropology.  Which Kingdom
specifically are you refering to? Atenveldt?

<snip>

> I look at people like Valeria, Alisha, Sara and the other wonderful
> Royal 
> Peers I have come to love in this Kingdom, and I truly believe in my
> heart 
> that they deserve the courtesy of a Patent of Arms.
> 
> Larissa

What I fail to see if what courtesy is given by the Patent of Arms. 
The County that each of these ladies holds (or the Duchy in the case of
Her Grace Alisha) is of greater prestige and precendence than a Patent
of Arms.  I do not think any less of these ladies because they do not
have them, nor do I (with no slight intended Your Grace) hold those
from other Kingdoms who have a Patent of Arms in any higher regard than
these.


I remain ever,

Timothy of Glastonbury
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