[Ansteorra] Re: [Ansteorra-announce] Brewing and Vintning Competition at Lughnasad

[David Hughes]

Pug Bainter wrote:
>
> Pug Bainter (pug at pug.net) said something that sounded like:
> > > I ran across it a few years ago, let me see if I can find it again.
> > > It pretty much was a PERMIT to operate distilling apparatus, similar
> > > to that used by perfumers and vinegar plants, rather than a license to
> > > make beverages.  A piece of paper to keep the ATF off your back.
> > That's correct. *All* distilling, even for perfumes, requires a permit
> > from the BATF. The costs start at $500 per year.
>
> Sorry. I answered only part of the issue the first time.
>
> The costs are for drinkable beverages only. I couldn't easily find the
> cost for the actual application filling.
>
> For the drinkable alcohol take a look at:
>
> > http://www.atf.treas.gov/alcohol/info/faq/genalcohol.htm#g1
>
> For the denatured (ie. non-consumable) alcohol take a look at:
>
> http://www.atf.treas.gov/alcohol/info/faq/spirits.htm#s5
>
> as well as:
>
> http://www.atf.treas.gov/pub/alctob_pub/5150-3.htm
>
> Ciao,
>
> --
> Phelim "Pug" Gervase

Thanks for doing the research, Pug.

Two sections:
First:
S6: How do I obtain a “student permit” to demonstrate alcohol
production for a school science project?

The Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms is not authorized to issue
permits to students or anyone who wishes to build a still for alcohol
production demonstrations. Therefore, we are no longer able to grant a
request for a student experimental permit for the following reason.

  //Note: "no longerable".  I was remembering the old statutes (prior
to 1/5/99) which allowed such a permit.   DRAT!//

Distilled Spirits plants for the purpose of manufacturing alcohol are
governed by the Internal Revenue Code (IRC) and applicable
regulations. The laws and regulations only allow permits to be issued
to qualifying distilled spirits plants.

At 26 U.S.C. 5171 the law is very clear: (a) Certain operations may be
conducted only on bonded premises

Except as otherwise provided by law, operations as a distiller,
warehouseman, or processor may be conducted only on the bonded
premises of a distilled spirits plant by a person who is qualified
under this subchapter.

The law does not provide an exception for a student experimental
permit.

Second:
 Second, undenatured tax-free alcohol may be used by persons such as
research laboratories, hospitals, universities, and government
agencies, if they hold an industrial use permit. Undenatured tax-free
alcohol is prohibited from use in the manufacture of any product for
sale. Third, undenatured distilled spirits on which the tax has been
paid may be used in the manufacture of medicines, medicinal
preparations, food products, flavors, flavoring extracts, and perfume;
and then drawback may be claimed. This drawback is similar to a
refund; however, the drawback rate is $1 per proof gallon less than
the applicable tax rate. The Government keeps the difference. For
further information on using distilled spirits in any of these ways,
please contact the ATF National
Revenue Center at (800) 398-2282.


//It might be possible to get an industrial use permit, which would
allow you to buy untaxed alcohol for research use, such as
distillation extraction of essential oils of herbs in an alcoholic
media, in an attempt to recreate medicinal preparations mentioned in
historical texts.
You couldn't start from the mash, (as you could with the former
student permit) but most cordials would be possible.

This something the university lawyers should ceck out with the ATF.
Historicaly, the ATF has permitted small volume (under 1 liter), but
it's seems to be a CYA situation.

David Gallowglass
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