[Ansteorra] Period furs- short rebuttal
aceia at mac.com
Tue Nov 27 15:49:54 PST 2001
I think they are ties as Sir Dietrich says... 1) they are not 'furry' and
the artist has gone to great lengths to show the individual hairs of the
wife that have escaped her hairdo, as well as the feathers on the bird. If
these were fur tails, I believe the artist would have rendered them as being
more fuzzy. 2) As to the weight it is easily visible that there are metal
points on the ends of them, which would weight them down. 3) If these are
tails, then what animal would have consistantly dark red fur on a very small
tail as seen on the boy's shirt? A very skinny squirrel with not-fuzzy fur?
I have never seen a red ferret. Perhaps they exist.... I wouldn't know.
-Robin Anderson of Ross
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 06:29:53 -0800 (PST)
> From: Holly Frantz <hefrantz at yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: [Ansteorra] Period furs- short rebuttal
> To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
> Reply-To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
> Sir Dietrich, I'm sorry but I have to disagree with
> you. I'm familiar with all of the portraits that
> you've mentioned and I've looked at them again. In
> these portraits, these ties are obviously attached to
> the top or shoulder of the outer garment. Now, that
> shoulder may actually extend half-way down the arm so
> that it appears that the ties are attached on the arm
> itself but they are really attached to the outer
> garment and don't extend from the arm of the shirt or
> chemise. In most of these portraits it's also very
> easy to see that what is depicted is a wide ribbon or
> The only portrait that has clothes and ties that bear
> a resemblence to the family portrait I mentioned is
> Tura's "Portrait of a Young Man". Though, if they are
> the same, then the unknown artist of Uberto de'
> Sacrati's family did an exceedinly poor job of
> rendering the ties, choosing to make them all a
> stylized shape and hanging as if they had a certain
> amount of weight and not free-hanging ribbons or ties.
> --- "C. Weed" <cweed at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>> Niccola Setaro penned:
>> For two examples of animal tails and parts (not
>> necessarily ermine) in period portraiture, please
>> Family of Uberto de' Sacrati, c. 1480, possibly a
>> family of idiots?
>> Man with a Golden Paw, c. 1527, may be a real paw,
>> be jewelry
>> Both available at the web gallery of art.
>> In the family portrait you refer to, the prominent
>> 'danglies' depending from
>> the upper sleeves of both father and son are not, in
>> point of fact, animal
>> tails. Rather, they are thick cloth points used to
>> attach the outer sleeves
>> (obviously not pictured here). The wide bow-tie
>> type points first appear on
>> the fashion scene around the time of this portrait
>> (c. 1480)and can widely
>> be seen up through the cavalier period.
>> Ghirlandaios "Herrods Banquet" has
>> several examples of that same strange mid-sleeve
>> placement. Other examples
>> of points of a similar thickness can be found at the
>> site you mentioned in
>> the following portraiture (I didn't get past the
>> letter 'D' in the 1550s but
>> I think this will do for a start):
>> BOLTRAFFIO, Giovanni Antonio "Portrait of a Young
>> BOTTICELLI, Sandro "Portrait of an Unknown Personage
>> with the Medal of
>> Cosimo il Vecchio"
>> COSTA, Lorenzo "Portrait of a Woman"
>> TURA, Cosme "Portrait of a Young Man"
>> BORGO=D1A, Juan de "Lady with a Hare"
>> BRONZINO, Agnolo "Lucrezia Panciatichi"
>> D=DCRER, Albrecht "Portrait of a Young Venetian Woman"
>> I would like to add my own short qualifiers,
>> however, concerning tails and
>> Firstly, that ermine tails seem to have always been
>> outside the regular
>> implication that other animal tails seem to
>> represent. Their tiny black dot
>> seems to consistently have been just the chic
>> addition to judicial and royal
>> robes from the 1300s onwards.
>> Secondly, that fox seems to have risen sharply in
>> popularity in the 16th
>> century (but only readily available to the upper and
>> upper-middle class yet
>> again). Fox tails, however, still indicate that the
>> wearer is drooling on
>> the church steps.
>> Lastly, that as Lady Niccola pointed towards
>> already, there became in the
>> late 15th century and all through the 16th century
>> an affinity for other
>> animal bits to be gilded and trussed with loot and
>> toted about as jewelry.
>> Heads and feet seem to be the rule on these morbid
>> little treasures.
>> Although not represented on the Web Gallery of Art,
>> Moroni did a wonderful
>> portrait of a lady in pink (recently on display in
>> Dallas) with what can
>> only be described as The Great Gilded Weasel Head of
>> Gaud. It's creepy and
>> cool, all in one... kind of Addams Family meets the
>> Medici Family.
>> Sir Dieterich
> I laughed, I cried, <
> It became a part of me. <
> aceia at mac.com <
> http://homepage.mac.com/aceia <
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