[Ansteorra] Re: Authenticity/Ten Foot Rules/10' credibility tool

Fri Apr 19 08:25:04 PDT 2002

>From: DonnelShaw at aol.com
>>Obviously the term has some shades of nuance to it.
>The first rule is correct this one is  not.
>Donnel

That is one point of view, yes.  And for you it is the correct one.  For me
it is not.

>From: "C. Weed" <cweed at austin.rr.com>
Thank you.  I actually, have a lot of responses here - but I'm trying to
avoid discussions about what the SCA *should* be and only deal with what we
have available.  You are correct in your estimation of how the SCA is
regarded in the re-enactment and academic communities (and yes, there are
people in the SCA doing some absolutely magnificent research - but you won't
find the SCA connection on their vita).  That's the way it is, right now.

>I've noted here within their respective specialized academic and
>professional neighborhoods.
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 9
>From: "Scarhart" <scarhart at chivalry.com>
>To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
>Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Bordermarch Baronial query on kids
>Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 06:56:07 -0500
>Reply-To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
>
>Thank you for the reply, Lord Malcolm. I hope we'll get there early enough
>for my children to participate. They would enjoy it, I'm sure!
>
>Cheers,
>
>Andrew
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Pem1968 at aol.com>
>To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
>Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 11:19 PM
>Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Bordermarch Baronial query on kids
>
>
> > --
> > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> >
> > Greetings Lord Scarhart and unto the List,
> >
> > It seems we owe an apology to the children of this fair kingdom.  We
>have
> > overlooked planning activities for this year's event. However, we ARE
>going
> > to have something for our young ones to do....it's just going to be a
> > surprise. If you have any questions regarding the activities, please ask
>for
> > me once you arrive and I'll be happy to answer your questions.
> >
> > In service,
> >
> > Ld Malcolm MacLean
> > Squire to Sir Godwin of Edington
> > Seneschal of Barony Bordermarch
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ansteorra mailing list
> > Ansteorra at ansteorra.org
> > http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/ansteorra
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 10
>From: "HL Darcy" <darcy at seacove.net>
>To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
>Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] 10' credibility tool
>Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 07:32:18 -0500
>Reply-To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
>
>I would just like to point out that there is nothing in the SCA governing
>documents or incorporation that says our function is to "educate" the
>general population.  We are a "self-educating" group as witnessed by the
>many universities, colleges and collegiums throughout the Known World.  We
>do not put on public performances as many of the groups that are limited to
>more restricted time periods (often wars) do.
>
>HL Darcy Evaline o Lasgwm
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "C. Weed" <cweed at austin.rr.com>
>To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
>Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 1:26 AM
>Subject: [Ansteorra] 10' credibility tool
>
>
> > In regard to Marc Carlson's estimation of the infamous 10 foot rule,
>Donnel
> > writes:
> >
> > >>>>>>
> > The first rule [that just outlines some sort of effort discerned at 10
>feet]
> > is correct this one [an effort that would fool the eye of a field expert
>at
> > 10 feet] is  not.
> > Donnel
> > >>>>>>
> >
> > Which is an interesting, albeit a somewhat absolutist view.  I think the
> > credibility of the sca could be *drastically* improved in regard to the
> > historical community, the educational community, as well as the
>re-enactment
> > community if we adopted Mr. Carlson's standard rather than the one
>approved
> > above.  If any of you doubt that there is a bit of an intellectual
>stigma
> > attached to the sca as a seriously informative source, bring it up as a
> > credential in the circles listed above.  (See groups like HACA/ARMA, and
>the
> > sundry reenactment groups from the Regency to the Civil War to the
> > Buckskinner eras for contrast)
> >
> > There's a pecking order in the world of
> > clubs-where-folks-dress-up-and-make-rules and the sca is nowhere near
>the
> > top.
> >
> > The scas defining documents present us as "educational" but I think one
> > member in ten could say to a group of middle schoolers with an honest
>face:
> > "Yes, Johnny, this is what people in [insert time/place] looked like."
>The
> > rest would get some very interesting and pointed questions about tennis
> > shoes and about the wearing of athletic supporters on the outsides of
> > sweatpants and about animal faces painted on fencing masks and about
>ninja
> > swords tucked into Viking belts and about basket hilts and bargrills and
>and
> > and ad nauseum ad infinitum.
> >
> > I have long thought that the "educational" bit of our definition is a
>farce.
> > I think, in honesty, we're far more interested in our own socialization
>than
> > we are in informing the external public.  It's not a bad thing- I just
>wish
> > we could either stop pretending or step up to the challenge the wording
> > presents.  Donnels interpretation of the 10' rule says to me: "A t-tunic
> > rather than a t-shirt".  Marcs says: "Spend the extra twelve bucks and
>get
> > the linen to really set the mood."  This little hiccough could, of
>course,
> > be rectified if we defined ourselves as a fraternity but that's another
>road
> > for another horse on another day.
> >
> > C. Weed
> > Who loves the SCA no matter if we live up to our rhetoric or not.
> >
> >
> > Addendum:
> >
> > It occurs to me that there could be a flood of "But what about Mistress
> > Gunnorra: Viking Answer Lady Extrordinaire?" type responses.  Let me say
> > this to those before the blood pressure medicine runs out: yes, we have
>many
> > people who are members of the sca that are *HIGHLY* respected in the
> > academic and reenactment world at large.  They stand out as giants among
>us.
> > Mr. Carlson is to the historical shoemaking community worldwide, a
>pillar.
> > Iolo has crossbows in Museums worldwide and his consultation on the
>subject
> > is second to no person alive.  On more than one occasion an SCA member
>has
> > won a major costuming competition open to professionals- see Truly Biggs
>and
> > Dawn Hemphill (Lady Eleanor and Mistress Ariella) as prime examples.
>We've
> > had (and still have, I believe) Laurels in our Kingdom with PhDs.  But I
> > don't think they, in general, use the sca as a credential and I'd even
>wager
> > that these same people have noticed the same or a similar trend to the
>one
> > I've noted here within their respective specialized academic and
> > professional neighborhoods.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ansteorra mailing list
> > Ansteorra at ansteorra.org
> > http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/ansteorra
> >
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 11
>From: Brian Martin <BMartin at Corp.Prodigy.com>
>To: "'ansteorra at ansteorra.org'" <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
>Subject: RE: [Ansteorra] Re: Authenticity/Ten Foot Rules
>Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:52:07 -0500
>Reply-To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
>
>This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
>this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
>--
>[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
>
>
>
>
> > Whereas when I was taught the "ten foot rule" it was that if an expert
>(i.e.
> > someone who knows what they are looking at) couldn't discern from ten
>feet
> > away the inaccuracies, then it was ok (which meant that things like
>machine
> > sewing is fine, but you want to stick to accurate materials).
> >
> > Obviously the term has some shades of nuance to it.
> >
> > Marc/Diarmaid
> >
>
>The first rule is correct this one is  not.
>Donnel
>
>
>Since these "rules" are not rules at all, but merely guidelines that some
>people have come up with, I don't think that one can determine which is
>correct and which is not. These things are left to individual
>interpretation.
>
>Pendaran
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 12
>From: "Paul DeLisle" <ferret at hot.rr.com>
>To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
>Subject: RE: [Ansteorra] Re: Authenticity/Ten Foot Rules
>Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:25:04 -0500
>Reply-To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
>
> > > Whereas when I was taught the "ten foot rule" it was that if an expert
> > (i.e.
> > > someone who knows what they are looking at) couldn't discern
> > from ten feet
> > > away the inaccuracies, then it was ok (which meant that things like
> > machine
> > > sewing is fine, but you want to stick to accurate materials).
> > >
> > > Obviously the term has some shades of nuance to it.
> > >
> > > Marc/Diarmaid
> > >
> >
> > The first rule is correct this one is  not.
> > Donnel
>
>Good-my-lord...please remember that this so-called "rule", is in reality a
>"rule-of-thumb"...meaning it's not any type of "rule" at all. As such,
>there
>is no "Correct" or "Wrong" version of it. Like many "rules-of-thumb", this
>is a good one, and there are many *other* good ones too. Unless you,
>personally, invented this "rule", and wrote it down officially somewhere, I
>question your criticism of Diarmuid's observation.
>
>Alden
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 13
>From: "Theron Bretz" <tbretz at montroseclinic.org>
>To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
>Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] 10' credibility tool
>Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:28:46 -0500
>Reply-To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
>
> > I would just like to point out that there is nothing in the SCA
>governing
> > documents or incorporation that says our function is to "educate" the
> > general population.  We are a "self-educating" group as witnessed by the
> > many universities, colleges and collegiums throughout the Known World.
>We
> > do not put on public performances as many of the groups that are limited
>to
> > more restricted time periods (often wars) do.
>
>Argued like a person of letters.  The fact is, whether or not we have a
>written mandate to do so, we DO go into schools and other educational
>settings.  As such, we have a responsibility to the truth. Saying it's not
>in our charter and our role is to educate ourselves is a convenient dodge
>that ignores the reality of the situation.  What's the point of being
>self-educating if we can't educate ourselves correctly? What purpose demos
>in schools if we disseminate falsehood?
>
>Don Luciano Malatesta
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ansteorra mailing list
>Ansteorra at ansteorra.org
>http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/ansteorra
>
>
>End of Ansteorra Digest

Marc
(marc-carlson at utulsa.edu still works just fine -- my boss is just getting
weird about discussion groups)

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