[Ansteorra] RE: Personna Stuff

[Nathan Jones]

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Luciano Malatesta (The Don Formerly Known as Etienne, or T.D.F.K.A.E.) wrote some great comments on personna and offers as an example of little things to know that go a long way in creating the right atmosphere in which to play personna well:

> [What's the] the difference between a ducat and a florin*

and then graciously explains:
>*The Ducat is the chief coin of Venice.  The Florin is the chief coin of
>Florence.  Florins are cut with base metal which can alchemically cause your
>other quality money, such as ducats, to rot into dust.  The previous
>statement has been brought to you by the Venetian Ministry of Coinage.



I offer one of my favorite footnotes, from _Two_Memoirs_of_Renaissance_Florence_. Ed. Gene Brucker.  1st ed. New York:  Harper & Row, 1967.  This is from the bottom of page 36:

"The gold franc was worth slightly more than the Florentine florin.  It contained 3.885 grams of gold to the florin's 3.536.  The Venetian ducat, mentioned in the preceding paragraph, was nearly identical in value to the florin, it's gold content was 3.559 grams."

So, from this we learn that it is better to have your debts repaid in francs, but always wiser to pay your debtors in florins.

There is also another great footnote on page 26 concerning where Brucker extrapolates the price of a florin using the 1966 price of gold, which was $35/oz.  He comes up with a value of $4 for a florin.  Here is the quote:

"... The most valuable Florentine coin was the gold florin, worth approximately $4.00 at the current price of $35.00 per ounce.  Independent of the florin was a monetary system based upon silver, comprising lire (pounds), soldi (shillings) and denari (pence): 12 denari to the soldo, 20 soldi to the lire.  In 1400 a florin was worth approximately 75 soldi, or 3 3/4 lire.  Day wages for unskilled laborers in Florence varied between 7 and 15 soldi; a bushel of wheat in times of good harvest cost about 15 soldi.  A small house might rent for 5 fl. annually; a large palace, for 50 fl."

Gold is currently marketed in troy ounces, which is 31.103683666549887 grams.  Let's just say 31 for ease of calculation. Going by today's price of gold (approx. $300/oz or $9.677/gm), the franc would be worth $37.595, the florin would be $34.183 and the ducat would be $34.440.   This would put the value of the lire at $9.314, the soldo at $.446 and the denari at $.038.  A days wages for unskilled laborers would be between $3.122 and $6.69.  A bushel of wheat would be $6.69.  A small house would rent for $170.915 per year and a large palace for $1709.15 per year.

Now, Brucker's mistake here is to compare the value of a medieval florin by weight to the 1966 price of gold, and so the calculation I just did is equally worthless.  In and of itself gold, or any currency for that matter, has no value.  The value of currency is what one can purchase with it.  My guess is that the values I've placed on the franc, florin and ducat are low, but more research is required.

For example, based on the current bushel price of wheat (approx. $2.50-$3.00) the florin could be anywhere from $12.50 to $15.00 (assuming, of course, equivalence of values to a medieval bushel.)  If we go by average wage for unskilled labor, call it between $5.15 and $12, we get values between $441.429 and $480.00 for the florin.  But, if we go by average rents, then say a modest monthly payment of $500/month, we can estimate the value of the florin at about $1200.  (500/month * 12 months = 6000.  6000/5 = 1200.)  This would make the rent on a large palace about 60,000 a year, or $5,000 a month.

These are just estimates, and just for fun.  I haven't actually done any hard research on any of this yet, have only the one source to go by for the weights of the coins and other medieval money numbers.  But, I think it's pretty neat.  I'm working on a spreadsheet that converts these numbers into ducats and francs, and have a table that gives values for the silver system as well based on the several estimates of what a florin might be worth in today's money.  I'll put it up on my website later this week.

Giovanni.




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