[Ansteorra] FW: Aveloc and Gulf Wars

'bella sprice4 at tampabay.rr.com
Mon Feb 4 09:37:36 PST 2002

if you had such deep concerns you should have aired them.
He was not his man. or a prince then either....

the point is moot...so why flog a dead horse.. legally speaking
bringing up this particular issue in this pubic forum ....  this
long AFTER the fact is slander...

and finally.... that comment about not airing marshallate
reports... made the thought come to my mind ''what have they got
to hide?'   not that there is anything to hide, but humans being
what they are.... >:P

just rebutting an issue long dead even in An Tir  and this issue
generated over 200+ posts a day for about two weeks....

and really this is the last thought, honest...

we SCAdians have a hard time with change... I recall the hue and
cry over just raising the rent by ten bucks a year... oh my god,
you would have thought that all the ladies of the rose were to be
burned at the stake.    I think the broader issue as seen across
many kingdoms IS change in the bod, change in the society as a
whole...  that is how, in each kingdom list I am on,  the Aveloc
issue has turned to.

whether the man is a saint or a sinner is not for me to say...
what I have seen is a lot of kingdoms examining the way crown
tourney is fought. the way the bod power is wielded..  and even
they way they treat each other...

and that in and of itself is not a bad thing... sometime we need
to sit back and reflect and examine.... and if needed be change
ourselves, and the way we as Gentles treat each other... and if
need be, fix what ain't broke and change even that.  (smiles)  in
spite of the general hue and cry.

now back to sewing for war...

----- Original Message -----
From: <morgancain at earthlink.net>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 11:45 AM
Subject: [Ansteorra] FW: Aveloc and Gulf Wars

Forwarded by Permission.

Original Message:
From: "Robbin Long" <broinnfhionn at yahoo.com>
Date sent: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 19:37:31 -0600
Subject: [SCA-RoyalPeers] Gulf Wars Allegations

We have spent a lot of time thinking very hard about whether to
this or not. When crap is thrown at our feet, Radu and I are not
kind of people who generally stoop and throw it back. However,
manner in which the Gulf Wars incidents were oversimplified and
trivialized on Aveloc's site and on various bulletin boards has
alarmed and concerned, and there are some things we have finally
decided to air.

First, We are not going to go into a charge-by-charge detailed
counterpost of the things presented on the site. If anyone has
specific questions regarding what happened as reported in our
Marshallate report, we will be glad to address them. Our Earl
Marshal, Baron Sir Conal MacDale, one of the finest men to ever
that office, is uncomfortable with the idea of just releasing our
Marshallate reports for the consumption of the Knowne World, and
happen to agree with him. BUT the fact remains that at last
Gulf Wars Aveloc had marshallate problems with over five separate
marshals. The violations ranged from poor blow acknowledgement
excessive force to illegal weapons to illegal grappling. He not
repeatedly ignored marshallate instructions and corrections, he
encouraged other fighters from his Kingdom to do so as well, and
argued contentiously during the process. In the report, written
the investigation commenced, our KEM noted that the only thing
unpleasant than dealing with Aveloc at the war was a compound leg

The important thing to realize here is that none of these men
Count Aveloc from Adam. No personal vendettas can exist without
personal knowledge. There was no conspiracy, no witchhunting. In
fact, it was this very fact that kept administrative action from
taken. The offenses were so spread out over the course of the war
and over a multitude of marshals we were never able to put it all
together until the war was over. Let us emphasize something
here - had
we been able to at the time, our Marshallate would have initiated
actions to have his Fighter Authorization suspended. This is
something that we deeply regret, and we have taken steps to
such oversights at the War in the future.

When we saw the initial marshallate report, while we were Heirs
before we even knew of the Board investigation, we had intended
send Aveloc a letter containing his first and second marshallate
warnings and emphasizing that if he came to Gulf Wars this year,
marshallate infraction would result in his immediate expulsion
the event. We declared this intent to our Earl Marshal at the
and to the Society Marshal at a later event where he was present.
After seeing the final report, we revised that intention to
him from the War entirely. We had held off only to temporally
the warning to the war. After we were informed of the
we decided to await the final decision of the Board - if they had
banished him, the letter would have been sent the next day. If he
- well, we don't beat dead mules here in the South. The rest is a
matter of record.

What has sickened us the most about the entire affair is Aveloc's
contention that the Board action was in response to moves to
the power and the Sovereignity of the Crowns. During the course
the Gulf Wars affair, when the marshallate refused to pass his
weapons, he bypassed our ENTIRE marshallate chain of command
was clearly outlined in the Conventions), including our
Sovereign, and
appealed first directly to the Society Earl Marshall. This
the fact the the King is by tradition, Meridian Law, and Corpora,
final authority of appeal on all things Marshal in his Kingdom.
he finally did see our King, as he says, but only after Duke
sent him packing back to him. For someone to declare that they
believe in the Sovereignity of the Crown, and violate it when it
him is hypocrisy of the first order, but it is very much in line
his behavior at our War. He followed the rules only as it suited
and broke them flagrantly when it did not.

The Gulf Wars Marshallate problems were only one small part of
entire mess. But it was our part, and although it alone was not
enough to banish him, it was enough that all involved on our end
consider Count Aveloc to be a danger on the field and a disgrace
his belt. We cannot answer to the rest of the charges, but
knowing how
the Gulf Wars charges were twisted and misrepresented, and this
help but cause us to speculate on the rest. We are also greatly
affronted on behalf of ourselves, our Marshallate, and our
that Aveloc brings into question and dismisses the integrity of
five of our Chivalry without pointing a finger at the only other
common factor among all the incidents - himself.

Radu and Broinnfhionn
Meridies Kiralya and BannRigh

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