[Ansteorra] Gypsy vs Rom
Stefan li Rous
StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
Sun Jul 6 21:18:03 PDT 2003
Brenna O'dempsy wrote:
> My persona is actualy Irish in blood, but as my story goes, I left
> home at the age of ten and became a nomad... I did spend quiet some
> time living with the Rom and picked up much of thier culture... So
> while I am not of Roma blood, I have their heart and much of their
> personality. Thank you for all the information... The Romani have
> always been a fasination of mine.
Okay, is your persona late period or earlier? The Rom don't appear to
have reached the British Isles until relatively late in period. From my
Gypsies-msg file:
> The dates Clebert gives for the appearance of Gypsies in Europe are:
>
> 855? Byzantium
> 1260 (or 1399?) Bohemia
> 1322? Crete
> 1346 Corfu
> 1348 Serbia
> 1378 The Pelopennese, Zagreb
> 1414 Basle
> 1417 Transylvania, Moldavia, The Elbe
> 1418 Saxony, Augsburg
> 1419 France, Sisteron
> 1420? Denmark
> 1422 Bologna, Rome
> 1427 Paris
> 1430 (or 1440?) Wales
> 1447 Barcelona
> 1492 (or 1505) Scotland
> 1500 Russia
> 1509 Poland
> 1515 Sweden
>
> He notes that these dates mark the *'official'* appearance of Gypsies,
> and
> doesn't necessarily mean they were not already there.
Another quote that you might interesting, and useful if you want to be
like, but not a Rom:
> Carolyn Boselli wrote:
> >In Ireland, Tinkers.
>
> According to Jean-Paul Clebert in 'The Gypsies' (pub. Penguin),
> Tinkers (not
> just an Irish term, though in Scotland they're called Tinklers) are
> almost
> certainly not true Rom (Gypsies) at all. The name tinker is related
> to the
> roots 'tik', 'tin'k', and 'tsink', onomatpoeic terms relating the
> sound of
> hammer on anvil, and is thus a generic term for the itinerant smiths
> and
> tinmen of Britain. They live like Gypsies, and use some Gypsy words,
> but
> are most probably not Gypsies. They refer to themselves as
> 'travellers' and
> aborigines (!!).
Although I'm not quite sure I would want to go around saying I was a
"Tinkler". :-)
And another interesting snippet, even if not exactly on this topic:
> They came into England during the time of
> Queen Elizabeth, and were there less than a century before James threw
> them out. (On a fun disguised romp with his men-at-arms, he came on to
> a
> Rom woman, and she "came crack over his head with a bottle", after
> which
> he hounded them all out of England and Scotland.) Quite a few took
> refuge
> in the mountains of Wales and in Ireland, or went back to the
> Continent.
> It would be another century before they could legally enter the
> country.
Oh, and there is also some information on Ireland, Irish clothing and
Irish food in the Florilegium.
Stefan
--------
THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas
StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org ****
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