[Ansteorra] Gypsy vs Rom

[Stefan li Rous]

Brenna O'dempsy wrote:
> My persona is actualy Irish in blood, but as my story goes, I left 
> home at the age of ten and became a nomad... I did spend quiet some 
> time living with the Rom and picked up much of thier culture... So 
> while I am not of Roma blood, I have their heart and much of their 
> personality.  Thank you for all the information... The Romani have 
> always been a fasination of mine.
Okay, is your persona late period or earlier? The Rom don't appear to 
have reached the British Isles until relatively late in period. From my 
Gypsies-msg file:
> The dates Clebert gives for the appearance of Gypsies in Europe are:
>
> 855?            Byzantium
> 1260 (or 1399?) Bohemia
> 1322?           Crete
> 1346            Corfu
> 1348            Serbia
> 1378            The Pelopennese, Zagreb
> 1414            Basle
> 1417            Transylvania, Moldavia, The Elbe
> 1418            Saxony, Augsburg
> 1419            France, Sisteron
> 1420?           Denmark
> 1422            Bologna, Rome
> 1427            Paris
> 1430 (or 1440?) Wales
> 1447            Barcelona
> 1492 (or 1505)  Scotland
> 1500            Russia
> 1509            Poland
> 1515            Sweden
>
> He notes that these dates mark the *'official'* appearance of Gypsies, 
> and
> doesn't necessarily mean they were not already there.
Another quote that you might interesting, and useful if you want to be 
like, but not a Rom:
> Carolyn Boselli wrote:
> >In Ireland, Tinkers.
>
> According to Jean-Paul Clebert in 'The Gypsies' (pub. Penguin), 
> Tinkers (not
> just an Irish term, though in Scotland they're called Tinklers) are 
> almost
> certainly not true Rom (Gypsies) at all.  The name tinker is related 
> to the
> roots 'tik', 'tin'k', and 'tsink', onomatpoeic terms relating the 
> sound of
> hammer on anvil, and is thus a generic term for the itinerant smiths 
> and
> tinmen of Britain.  They live like Gypsies, and use some Gypsy words, 
> but
> are most probably not Gypsies.  They refer to themselves as 
> 'travellers' and
> aborigines (!!).
Although I'm not quite sure I would want to go around saying I was a 
"Tinkler". :-)

And another interesting snippet, even if not exactly on this topic:
> They came into England during the time of
> Queen Elizabeth, and were there less than a century before James threw
> them out. (On a fun disguised romp with his men-at-arms, he came on to 
> a
> Rom woman, and she "came crack over his head with a bottle", after 
> which
> he hounded them all out of England and Scotland.) Quite a few took 
> refuge
> in the mountains of Wales and in Ireland, or went back to the 
> Continent.
> It would be another century before they could legally enter the 
> country.
Oh, and there is also some information on Ireland, Irish clothing and 
Irish food in the Florilegium.
Stefan
--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
    Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          
StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****