[Ansteorra] re: Celtic history (was: Romantic Personas)

[Marc Carlson]

>From: ansteorra-bounces+jyeates=realtime.net at ansteorra.org
>* ... If "Danu/Danae" is from the wrong time and place to have any 
> >relevant contribution, I'm not sure that dragging in a Sumerian God to
>asttribute it to an Irish ancestral group is any -more- of the right
>time and place to be relevant.
>...
>Danu/Danae are greek aspects from the wrong point in the settlement >waves 
>from mespotamia, into balkans where they blended with cultural
>input from the indic regions (settled earlier), and then on into
>europe - with a side branch going south into greece.  see the
>excellent preliminary work by national geographic on their world-wide
>charting the spread of humanity via DNA analysis

I’ve seen it, and you know what, it doesn’t say anything like that.

But let’s pretend that it does for a second, and that the Indo-European 
migrations came out of Mesopotamia by way of the Balkans, don’t you think 
that it’s more plausible for some hypothetical Greek “aspect”, being later 
in time to be the connection, rather than a much further back god?

>* ... Again, wrong time and place to have ANY relevant influence on >this 
>topic.  "Albigensian" is derived from the name of the town of
>Albi in southern France (founded in the Roman period as Albiga, which
>considerably post dates any version of the Milesian/Tuadha conflict.)
>...
>nope ... the people came first and gave the name to the city you
>mention ... "albi-gens" - gens = line, albi (elbi ot ylbi) a feminine
>form that implies "royal lineage" in a matrilineal race…see where all
>this is going (and scratches surface of a question in first post in >thread 
>on what happened to the Tuadth d'Anu (and where did they come
>from).  for more detail on the linguistic side of things see the work >I 
>cited in last post (his work on words and their growth are
>priceless)

Oh, I see where this is coming from, and I have to agree Laurence Gardener’s 
work is priceless, but probably not for the same reasons you think it is :)

>* .... You know, this is an interesting re-interpretation of the
>Indo-European folks coming west (not to mention SW (the Hitittes),
>South (The Indo Aryan people) and west (the Tocharians).
>Unfortunately, I seem to have missed any evidence (ok any -reputable-
>evidence) that the Scythians had about as much in common with anyone
>the Tuatha might have been as they did with the ancient Scandinavians,
>the Romans, the Greeks, and so on.
>...
>again, see the book cited last post and the bibliography section – 
>pp375-387 is a good place to start.  many of them are know to me in my
>past degree work in celtic cultures and later ... been devouring  his
>citations as fast as i can locate them.  one of my treasured history
>profs taught that when the history becomes dogmatic, it's time to
>break it up and start back at "first principals" with new eyes and
>better understandings.

I tend to agree with that, but there IS a difference between “dogmatic” and 
“needs to be replaced with total bullshit,” just as there is a difference 
between “gee, that sounds logical” and “true”.

I’d probably be more inclined to listen to Gardner’s work if his vita wasn’t 
pure fiction, and if the only things he tends to write are this sort of 
“let’s see how much of this crap we can piece together into simplistic 
fantasy that the moronic public will keep buying” speculative stuff.

Gimbutas’ work, while flakey as hell, at least –tried- to stick to the sorts 
of reality most people actually live in (well, ok, up until the end).

>* ... Oh, never mind...
>...
>it's always easier to be dismissive and cleave to the accepted and >safe 
>than open ones mind to new possibilities ...

Hey, if you want to believe that George Bush is a shape shifting lizard from 
the 6th dimension, I’d be the last person to disagree, but if you crap into 
a bowl and stick a spoon in it, calling it pudding isn’t going to make want 
to eat it – particularly after I’ve already been had.  If I wasn’t open 
minded, I wouldn’t have bothered to even try his stuff.  Open minded and 
gullible aren’t the same thing.  Skepticism is not necessarily dogmatism.

So, now, let’s take a look at his background, shall we?

“Gardner is an internationally known sovereign genealogist and
historical lecturer. Distinguished as the Chevalier Labhran de St. Germain, 
he is Presidential Attache to the European Council of Princes, a 
constitutional advisory body established in 1946. He is also Prior of the 
Sacred Kindred of St. Columba, a Knight Templar of St. Anthony, a Fellow of 
the Society of Antiquaries of Scotland and Attache to the Grand Protectorate 
of the Imperial Dragon Court, 1408. Formally attached to the Noble Order of 
the Guard of St. Germain, founded by King James VII of Scots in 1692 and 
ratified by King Louis XIV of France, he is the appointed Jacobite 
Historiographer Royal.”

And from http://graal.co.uk/affiliates.html

Sir Laurence Gardner, Kt., FSA Scot., MIoN, is directly or indirectly
attached in his capacity as Envoy for the Royal House of Stewart and the 
European Council of Princes…

These all seem to exist here: 
http://www.royalhouseofstewart.org.uk/knight.htm
and with one exception, no where else.

http://www.royalhouseofstewart.org.uk/eurocoun.htm

For a rebuttal of the “European Council of Princes”

http://www.chivalricorders.org/royalty/fantasy/stuart.htm
http://www.jacobite.ca/essays/lafosse.htmo
http://watch.pair.com/michael-archangel.html  (a little flakey too,
but...)

Sacred Kindred of St. Columba web page doesn't as yet exist., but is on the 
same
http://www.royalhouseofstewart.org.uk site

Order of Knights Templars of St. Anthony
Only link takes you to http://www.royalhouseofstewart.org.uk/

The only exception to the Royal House of Steward site is:

Imperial and Royal Dragon Court
http://www.royalhouseofstewart.org.uk/dragon.htm
http://www.zsigmond.co.uk/royal_dragon_page.htm

Some of the following are kinda cute, but worth a look

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/anti-masonry01.html
http://www.geocities.com/newworldorder_themovie/dragoncourt.html
http://www.global-elite.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=176&theme=Printer
http://www.paranoiamagazine.com/dragonlegacy.html <-- Definately
worth a look, for amusement value if nothing else.
http://www.paranoiamagazine.com/mykingdom.html


You know this isn’t really taking too much effort to dig up, but my goal 
isn’t to get you to believe me – I’m fairly sure no matter what I say, I’ll 
just be ignored as a soulless minion of orthodoxy or some such.  However, I 
just can’t let such tripe be presented as history totally unchallenged.

Marc/Diarmaid