[Ansteorra] Principality?

[Chris Backus]

The number of people who are afraid of this topic surprises me.  So many 
people in the SCA are or have been in a University setting.  Talking openly 
about something is generally a good thing.  If you don't like the topic, 
that's ok.  Tune out.  Relax.  Another topic will come along shortly.  If 
you like, you can even set your mail program to filter out anything with 
principality in it  ; )

I think there are some strong regional identities in Ansteorra.  There were 
when I left, at least.  Not divisive, perhaps, but strong identities.  If 
one of them becomes strong enough, there'll be a push for labeling that will 
show externally what already exists (IMO) internally.  It won't happen 
unless it's meant to happen.  No worries and no sweat.

Some of the things I like about the SCA are nobility, banners, fealties, 
allegiances, loyalties... it's cool being part of a specific unit going into 
battle as part of a larger whole.  It's cool being a champion of a Barony 
(or Shire) and standing by the Baron, Baroness, and the people of the Barony 
(or Shire).  A principality would be one more banner, one more set of 
nobility, another layer of fealty, another allegiance, another thing to be 
loyal to while still being Ansteorran.

I'm going to geek out here for a minute.  Tolkien could have made all the 
humans part of Gondor.  Why didn't he?  Well, it was pretty cool that Gondor 
was saved by their allies the Rohirrim.  Why were there men from Dol Amroth? 
It's just a subdivision of Gondor... didn't they like being from Gondor? 
Heck, it's one more prince, one more banner, a slightly distinctive culture 
emphasizing the original sea-faring nature of the men of Gondor.

There's nothing wrong with subdivisions.  We're still forming new shires and 
new groups, not because we don't like what's already there, but because it's 
an act of creation, which we all aspire to.

Hawkins

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <HerrDetlef at aol.com>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Principality?


> Oh Lord.  This thread just refuses to die.  Since I lost my wand that I 
> could
> wave and make all this go away, I guess I will jump into the fray with my 
> own
> two Groschen.
>
> I looked up the SCA geography today, just out of curiosity, and this is 
> what
> I came up (I may be missing some things here):
>
> Out of eighteen kingdoms currently in the SCA, three were never
> principalities (they were founded as kingdoms), and sixteen were 
> principialities before
> they became kingdoms.
>
> There are currently six principalities today: three in the West (which 
> have
> been in existence as long as I can remember) and three in An Tir (founded
> within the last ten years).  That's only two kingdoms that currently have
> principalities.
>
> Now, this doesn't prove that "principality" automatically means "incipient
> kingdom", but it does demonstrate a high correlation between one and the 
> other.
>
> If the rationale behind forming a principality or two is simply so that 
> the
> visitation load on the Crown can be lightened, well, that's really not
> convincing enough.  That purpose is served by the tradition of allowing 
> landed barons
> and baronesses to usurp certain royal prerogatives (such as holding 
> chancery
> courts and awarding arms to worthy individuals).  Local groups or 
> individuals
> can also pitch in to help the Crown with travel and accomodation expenses 
> so
> that they can attend events in the far reaches of the kingdom.  I guess 
> the
> question here would be this one:  What would forming a principality in 
> Ansteorra
> achieve that could NOT be done without said formation?
>
> My impression has always been that a cluster of local groups forms a
> principality when they see themselves collectively as culturally distinct 
> from the
> rest of the kingdom.  A principality is a regional identity, if not a 
> national
> one, not only in the SCA but also in mundanity.  Do we have that in 
> Ansteorra?
> I know that proximity does influence many people's event attendance 
> patterns,
> but we really don't have any regional identities here.  One of the cool 
> things
> about Ansteorra is our basic unified nationality, and most people would be
> loath to compromise that simply to solve issues that can be solved by 
> other
> means.  Talk of principalities in this kingdom has rarely accomplished 
> much beyond
> a rash of hard feelings and distrust among the populace.
>
> Ansteorra has a great thing going with the fact that we can operate just 
> fine
> without principalities.  I cannot think of a soul who plays SCA in 
> Ansteorra
> who would seriously entertain identifying themselves as something other 
> than
> Ansteorran, at least beyond the identify of the local group.  I am an
> Ansteorran exactly as much as my friends in Namron (for example) are, or 
> the good folks
> living in Bonwicke.  We are of the same blood.  We react in much the same 
> way
> when we see a ten-pointed star on a gold flag.  We are Ansteorrans.  And 
> we
> are family.  (Okay, I'm being mushy......but this is a family without 
> factions.
> That's the point I am trying in my clumsy way to make.)  That camraderie 
> is
> a significant part of what identifies us to the rest of the Knowne Worlde. 
> I
> wouldn't trade that for anything.
>
> P.S., long story short:  we don't have anything resembling the kind of
> regional identity in Ansteorra that would entice a whole group of people 
> to think of
> themselves as anything other than Ansteorrans.  Without that, there really 
> is
> no reason to open that can of worms here.  Creating a principality for the
> wrong reasons can only spell disaster.  Only my opinion; you can take it 
> or
> leave it and I won't be offended.
>
> Peace, y'all!
>
> Detlef