[Ansteorra] SPAM-LOW: Re: [SCA-AE] Chirurgeon Title Changes

[Richard Threlkeld]

If I might comment? First, we are allowed to provide aid up to our training
or "Advanced First Aid" whichever comes first. Not First Responder which in
many US states is a licensed/certified title. Beyond that you are on your
own liability and not operating as a Corporate Officer. But you may work at
any level for which you are trained and you indeed be required to do so by
your license or modern law. Modern law trumps Corporate law every time.
Anyone may provide any aid that the patient wishes at any SCA event without
being a Chirurgeon.

The BoD is worried a jury might misconstrue the Master title even though it
is very clearly defined in our handbook which is a part of Corporate law and
the jury is required by law to make any decisions about such things using
the Corporate law where applicable. Of course, jury nullification applies to
Corporate law as well as modern law. The Legal Committee did not recommend
we change the titles and did not recommend or approve (to the best of my
knowledge) the new titles. They said they wanted to do some research on the
topic when the BoD asked them about it. The BoD is not prepared to wait for
their research as they believe the liability to be too great a risk. I
disagree, but I don't have the burden of governing the SCA and providing for
it future viability.

Yes, there are usually many people at an SCA event who have medical
training: EMT, Paramedic, Nurse, Doctor. Most will respond to a true
emergency even though they may be taking on personal liability (Good
Samaritan is variable from state to state in the US concerning licensed or
certified people who are not on duty). Yes, most of our Chirurgeons are
trained in basic first aid and CPR. But 95% of all requests for aid in the
SCA only requires first aid and common sense. 

In the remaining 5% we provide an infrastructure that gets the aid needed to
the person who needs it as quickly as possible. At larger events we are on
radios and have carts to quickly get help where it is needed. We maintain a
central point where people can come at all hours. We know the local
hospitals and the best way to get EMS to the site. We have coordinated with
Security and the Autocrats to make sure EMS knows where to go and a clear
path is available for them. We know who is available on site with advanced
training who is willing to use it (at least those who have told us so). And
we have often basic equipment provided from non-SCA sources (the site owner,
personal property of Chirurgeons, etc) that allows those trained to provide
oxygen, use an AED, splints, etc. And, finally, most of us know when doing
all that stuff is inappropriate.

We provide the basic support for small problems and the infrastructure to
get the needed help quickly for big problems. If you have current first aid
and CPR certs and have a clue (and it sounds like you have a clue), we would
be happy to have you become a Chirurgeon.

In service,
Caelin on Andrede
ER Deputy Society Chirurgeon

-----Original Message-----
From: ansteorra-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org
[mailto:ansteorra-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Mike C. Baker
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 11:39 AM
To: discussion at aethelmearc.org
Cc: 'Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc.'
Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [Ansteorra] [SCA-AE] Chirurgeon Title Changes

> Subject: {Spam?} Re: [SCA-AE] Chirurgeon Title Changes Noble Cousins!
> 
> Greetings from Solveig! In a word barf! The legal committee should get 
> itself stuffed. I don't know of anyone who was confused by the old 
> titles. The new titles aren't really much of an improvement except for 
> possibly the elimination of the word "master". Even then, "master" is 
> a traditional and well understood guild rank.
> 
> Yes, I am old enough to grow moss. Why not just go all the way to 
> "first responder trainee", "first responder", and "first responder 
> instructor"? Last I heard, the chiurginate is supposed to work under 
> "first responder" rules regardless of mundane licenses or 
> certifications held by individuals.
> 
> GRUMP!
> Your Humble Servant
> Solveig Throndardottir
> Amateur Scholar

For the record, "What SHE said!" -- with the additional caveat that mundane
law trumps SCA regulation, and the last I knew it can be actionable for a
trained individual to function at less than their full capacity (in some
jurisdictions, esp. under something like the "Good Samaritan"
circumstances).

And to establish why I feel so strongly about this, consider the
following:  I've received more "first responder" training, and been such a
trainer at one time, than I currently care to remember.  No, I am not fully
current on certification, and never fully processed through the SCA system
-- but in an emergency situation, I am *still* a "medically-trained first
response resource".  I will defer to current cert holders, I will follow
guidance from medical doctors, nurses, EMT, paramedic, etc. -- but I will
not stand aside and do nothing if there is not one such more currently
trained person present.  That's how *I* was trained...

Adieu, Amra / ttfn - Mike / Pax ... Kihe

Mike C. Baker
SCA: al-Sayyid Amr ibn Majid al-Bakri al-Amra, F.O.B, OSCA
"Other": Reverend Kihe Blackeagle PULC (the DreamSinger Bard) Opinions? I'm
FULL of 'em alt. e-mail: KiheBard at hotmail.com  OR MCBaker216 at cs.com
   Buy my writings!:   http://www.lulu.com/WizardsDen
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/kihebard/

_______________________________________________
Ansteorra mailing list
Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org