[Ansteorra] Litigation - was Re: Vambrace Poll

[Sir Lyonel Oliver Grace]

Salut cozyns,

The East Kingdom is arguably more litigious than Ansteorra. The East 
determined that the safest position with respect to litigation was to abide 
by the SCA standards. That way, if a lawsuit arises, the kingdom can shift 
responsibility to the corporate level.

lo vostre per vos servir
Lyonel
_________________________________
Dum doceo disco




>From: "Sue Delk" <ladydds at verizon.net>
>Reply-To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." 
><ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
>To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
>Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Vambrace Poll
>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:17:33 -0500
>
>     Unfortunately, some of this comes down to the litigiousness of our 
>society these days.  If people are willing to sue the SCA over little bitty 
>things, they are sure more than willing to sue over a broken arm during a 
>bout.  Yes, that's why we sign waivers and all that, but your insurance 
>company will sue to try and recover their losses.  We are grown adults who 
>legally can make our own decisions (even silly ones like hitting each other 
>with big sticks), but some lawyers will find any opening to use to their 
>advantage.
>     One way they might look at it is this...if Ansteorra required 
>vambraces once, and discontinued the practice, lawyers may look at that as 
>creating a liability where there was none before.  As some have discussed, 
>it's not always the new fighter who will get hurt.  Sir Morgan is a perfect 
>example of this.  I think he'd fought a few fights before he got hurt last 
>spring....  Yes he was wearing vambraces, but he admits it wasn't as rigid 
>as it maybe should have been.
>     My opinion, for what it's worth, is keep the vambraces.  I wasn't a 
>chirurgeon before vambraces were required, so I didn't see the injuries 
>that occurred as a result.  I'm looking from a chirurgeon standpoint and 
>the fact that it is fairly easy to do some major damage in the forearm and 
>injure major nerves that go to the hand.  Just my opinion....
>
>In service,
>HL Genevieve
>Kingdom Chirurgeon
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Marc Carlson
>   To: ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
>   Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 2:56 PM
>   Subject: [Ansteorra] Vambrace Poll
>
>
>   Let me state clearly, I do not fight in the SCA, and while it is 
>possible
>   that I might someday give in to temptation and actually get involved at
>   fighter practices, I am successfully resisting that urge, so really 
>anything
>   I have to say is from the view point of an interested observer, not as a
>   participant.
>
>   I am curious, at what point do we want to stop trying to protect people 
>from
>   their own poor choices?  I mean, we're talking about a hobby where grown
>   adults are actually hitting each other with sticks.  One would assume 
>that
>   most people actually understand that there are certain inherent dangers 
>and
>   choose to protect themselves.  We shouldn't have to legislate it, should 
>we?
>
>   I am learning 15th century Longsword, and when we bout, I occasional 
>come
>   home with some pretty unpleasant bruises, and such.  And you know what,
>   those are my own stupid fault because I'm putting myself in a position 
>where
>   someone with a stick might be able to hit me.  I need to either be
>   protecting myself better, or not be there.  This past weekend I finally
>   bought some of my first real armor, mostly because I keep getting 
>whacked in
>   the same place, and while a compression fracture at the junction of my 
>right
>   captitate and scaphoid might sound like fun, I'm thinking it will make 
>some
>   things less pleasant in the long run.  No one has to tell me to do this.
>   Personally, I'd rather not, but since I haven't been able to learn not 
>to do
>   whatever it is that would keep me from getting hit there, maybe some 
>armor's
>   a good idea.
>
>   Do I wear forearm protection?  Sure, but it's not up to Ansteorran
>   standards.  I manage to deflect most shots there, but not all, so while 
>I'm
>   not without risk, that's really my choice.  If I break something, I 
>don't
>   have a lot of room to whine about it since I put myself out there in the
>   first place.
>
>   So, back to my actual question - if we want to protect people from all 
>harm,
>   how far do we want to go with it?  How much further do we need to go to
>   duplicate 16th century tournament armor standards?  When do we figure 
>out
>   that actually hitting people with rattan can hurt you and prohibit that 
>in
>   favor of something softer?  I know it's a bit of stretch, and fair 
>enough.
>   But I am really curious.
>
>   Marc/Diarmaid
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