[Ansteorra] Motivations (was: Love and recognition)

[Jean Paul de Sens]

Kat, this touches on a point of mine I guess.  I just honestly don't believe
in "selflessness".  To perform an action "selflessly" you would have to do
an action without the hope of any positive feedback whatsoever, nor even
with the removal of negative feedback.  I don't believe people work that
way.  Many people confuse "actions with indirect benefits" to "acting
selflessly".

I do believe in "making sacrifices for the greater good" and "working for
the good of the group" but I do so knowing that I will benefit either
directly or indirectly or both.  I work in the SCA because this group has
given a lot in my life, and I believe in working to make it better and more
fun.   But I don't do so with absolutely no hope of reward whatsoever.  The
reward might simply be "the group continues" or "the group grows.", but
there will be the hope for reward nonetheless in my actions.  I give gifts
to my friends and relatives to make them happy, and to enjoy the feeling *I*
get when I make someone happy.  It gives me good feelings to help others,
and to find things that delight or please them.

When I tell people these things, they say "Well, that's not really
selfish."  I reply, "Yes it is.  Selfishness is not evil, but a rational
application of it combined can be extremely positivie."

So is my selfishness which helps others better or worse than doing nothing?
I hope so.

JP


On 9/26/06, Lori Campbell <countesskat at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> In an ideal world it wouldn't matter what a person's motives are as
> long as the jobs that need doing get done, right?  The SCA could be a
> truly glorious, mystical, happy place, with everyone working, secure in
> the idea that recognition comes to every deserving person in due time.
> No one would ever get hurt by the selfishness we see so often in the
> modern world.
>
> But the SCA hasn't succeeded very well in shedding real world values in
> favor of that idyllic dream-like existence.  People bring their
> impatience, their ambition, their sense of entitlement, etc. into the
> society with them.  Those values color their actions and motivations
> and even when the end product of their work is good, they didn't always
> get there in a nice, pretty fashion.
>
> It is sad, but I've seen people willing to seek their own
> self-glorification at someone else's expense.  That, in the end, is why
> motives matter.
>
> No, we can't sit back and figure out what motivates a person to do what
> they do, but we can count the bloody bodies they leave behind.  It
> becomes "how many people had to be hurt in some way so this person
> could get an award?"  Sometimes the answer is "none" and selfish
> motivations don't hurt anyone.  Other times, the body count is high
> even when someone has technically done the work required to receive
> recognition.
>
> When a Crown recognizes someone with an award, they are essentially
> saying "see what this person did? They set the standard. They are the
> example we all strive for."  Rewarding selfishness breeds more
> selfishness and, IMO, that is contrary to the values we really want to
> create here in our idyllic society.  The SCA is an attempt to create
> something *better* than what we've all experienced "out there," right?
>
>
> Baron Malcolm Alberic of Caid wrote a really good article on Awards in
> the SCA (http://www.dreiburgen.org/articles/awards.html).  It makes a
> clear point that SCA awards are about selflessness, not about things
> that are self-serving or self-aggrandizing.   It also makes mention of
> our system vs. the "merit badge" system, which was also a topic of
> discussion on this list not too long ago.
>
> Kat M.
>
>
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-- 
I want to fight and to strive, to vie with my opponents and friends, and at
the end of the day cry out "ENOUGH!!! For I can lift my arms no longer"

That is what is good in life.