[Ansteorra] Showers

Ysabeau lady.ysabeau at gmail.com
Tue Mar 27 06:27:29 PDT 2007


Chass,

I know this is your favorite soapbox, because you're on it every year.

But I think you're really annoying people more than converting them.  And
it's been my experience that annoyed people are NOT going to go out of their
way to help you until they have to.  Applied to this situation, if you keep
flaming everyone who has something to say, and keep pounding your point in
their face, I doubt anyone is going to do much until the BOD forces action.

I understand you have different requirements for than most people.  This
doesn't make you any more or less special a person.  You've pretty much said
that no one is listening to you, no one wants to talk to you, and that no
one will do anything to help you.  Well, if you keep pi**ing everyone off,
no one will want to listen to you, talk to you, or help you.

I'd suggest you try to work with a less aggressive stance here and try to
work WITH people.  Not lecture everyone about how they HAVE to help you.

Personally, I happen to know you first hand, and realize that you are a
pretty damn good person.  I happen to like you, and would help you just
about any time you asked.  But not everyone here knows that.  I've figured
out that this is of special interest to you, and that you feel very strongly
about it (ok, I bet everyone else has figured that out, too).  But you have
to quit hitting people in the head with a hammer every time someone says
something that you think is wrong.

I know that there was a reply from the Baron of Namron, and it sounded like
he was working on the situation.  Wouldn't it be better to try and help him
(and all of his people)?  Rather than accusing everyone of ignoring you?

I'm not saying to quit working on things that are important to you, but I
think it is a good idea to quit lecturing the kingdom about how they're
wrong and how you're being ignored.

And now, I will go back to lurking on the list.

Matthias

-----Original Message-----
From: ansteorra-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org
[mailto:ansteorra-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Chass
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 2:02 PM
To: 'Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc.'
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] SCA, the ADA, and all of us special note

Pssst BOD and their Attny's Already said they have to comply to the
A.D.A.. Hmm voiced special needs get told I am seeking special
treatment, been there done that tired of it. I do supply some of my own
needs but when a site is in such a state that I can not get around then
things need to change. When accessible sites are given to groups and
they ignore them and use the same old same old crappy trashy sites that
tear up vehicles and my All terrain wheelchair can not get around in
things need to change. When we voice our needs or thoughts we get
flamed, A small portion of the msg nitpicked (as you can see about the
gulf wars site and the attempt to distract from the A.D.A. conversation
and how the site is illegal), etc. I have faced the BOD. I have talked
to them. It was I who got them to admit they were not immune to the
A.D.A. through threat of banishment (which is again illegal, falls under
the retaliatory laws). It is I who yet again got off the phone with the
President of the SCA talking about this and need for information to come
yet again from on high so I can stop hearing this we are immune crap
again even though they publicly on all lists announced on all lists they
had to comply to the A.D.A.. 

Chass Brown A.K.A. 

Charinthalis Del Sans of the portable chariot. 

Honorable Recruiter of the House of the Red Shark.

Muddeler of Mead


-----Original Message-----
From: ansteorra-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org
[mailto:ansteorra-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Faelan
Caimbeul
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 8:46 AM
To: Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc.
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] SCA, the ADA, and all of us special note

I've been resisting the temptation to chime in on this, but I can't
anymore.

Duchess Willow makes a good point, especially in our kingdom where we
have
fighters in wheelchairs (he's also a Centurion, I believe) and a one
legged
Knight (who killed me at Three Kings). These men clearly do not need the
level of help that some others do and are an inspiration to everyone. It
may
also be a byproduct of our mundane lives not to offer help sometimes for
fear of insulting the person by the offering. I have had this happen to
me.

My fear about the way this thread is going is that certain people are
trying
to brow-beat the rest of us with the ADA rules, when it's questionable
how,
or even if, they truly apply to a rather unique organization like ours.
The
ADA is a list of ways to make a building or facility accessible to
disabled
persons. We are an organization without property, using other people's
facilities at all times. Therefore, we can only be as compliant as the
sites
we use.

That being said, there is a lot of consideration being given to people
with
medical needs. In fact, quite a bit, and the insinuation that it isn't
is
frankly insulting to the people going out of their way to do so. The
unfortunate conundrum, as I see it, is that our activities are not
necessarily conducive to things like wheelchair access and electricity.
Historically, the SCA has played outside, in the wilderness (so to
speak).
This makes some accommodations a bit harder to manage. For instance,
fighting and archery will always need a large open space and may or may
not
be accessible to wheelchairs and those with a hard time walking on
unsteady
ground. It's an unfortunate fact of life. Warlord is a great example.
Every
site we've looked at we have taken into consideration the availability
of
electricity for those that need it, and access for the mobility
challenged.
The insinuation otherwise is insulting to the scores of people doing the
legwork on this, and other events.

The only problem I see is that the specific needs aren't being voiced. I
have heard little on what specifically people need. I have seen a lot of
"no
one's looking out for us" but very little of "this is what I need
specifically". Help to fix the problem, not make it worse.

The SCA's population is getting older, and going to have to deal with
everything that comes with that, which we can, and will, as long as we
don't
fight with each other, toss around accusations, and put our heads
together
to find a solution. The nature of our beast is that we will never be
able to
include everyone all the time, but we can always try to do the best we
can
without loosing site of the chivalry and courtesy we all strive for.

Just my two cents,
Faelan


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