[Ansteorra] Ansteorra Digest, Vol 17, Issue 14
heidemarie.1 at juno.com
heidemarie.1 at juno.com
Tue Sep 11 16:47:59 PDT 2007
To add to Laszlo and Zubeyda's line, oral tradition can also be complimented by pictures. Currently, our household, Wolfstar, is collecting both for our 25th anniversary (to be celebrated at Elfsea... all are invited!!!!). Not only written and oral tales of old, but old photos, etc., including, I'm sure, our Mikael on shield a la surfboard). Wouldn't it be wonderful if each household, shire, barony, etc., did the same and put up such displays and artifacts? We would all learn about each other.
History in all its forms, be it written, oral, carved, painted, blown out of porportion or photographed is a lovely thing indeed!
Ahlanna a'Becket of House Wolfstar
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Flash Photography at events (Alden Drake)
2. Re: Flash Photography at events (Mike Dudley) (Epperson, Sheryl)
3. Re: Fwd: Looking for.... (Sandra D)
4. Re: Flash Photography at events (Chris Zakes)
5. Re: Flash Photography at events (robert segrest)
6. Re: Flash Photography at events (Baronman at aol.com)
7. Suggestion - Re: Flash Photography at events (L T)
8. Re: Flash Photography at events (Zubeydah Jamilla al-Badawiyya)
9. Re: Suggestion - Re: Flash Photography at events (Aislinn)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:42:33 -0500
From: Alden Drake <alden_drake at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Flash Photography at events
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <46E6FDB9.50105 at sbcglobal.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Gwynafwy Sinclaire wrote:
> I wish to say sorry now to those that may disagree and
> want to keep closer to the reason why we play - I
> understand and agree with that idea. But please
> understand that we, as a whole, also need to keep a
> record of "our way of life" for future generations.
If you want another way to keep memories alive, you could always
commission a bard to compose a tale, poem, song, etc. that pertains to
the occasion in question. :)
Alden Drake
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:47:40 -0500
From: "Epperson, Sheryl" <eppersos at oge.com>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Flash Photography at events (Mike Dudley)
To: <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID:
<D13AB1578C346E44BBFDD5C6F5CDD3390EED6061 at MTEMAIL.corp.oge.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
So far as disguising your camera bag, you might possibly have someone
simply make a larger pouch that you could put it in. This could be
either fabric or leather, and decorated if desired.
Personally, while pictures are nice, I would rather have pictures of
myself taken during the day, and not have flashes at court. I do,
however, understand those wishing to record an event.
It is nice to have pictures of court, especially of awards for those
receiving them and their friends/family. However, if you could check
with the nobility presiding over court, especially if you're planning on
taking pictures of much of court, they could possibly have someone
(preferably the photographers themselves) do some coordinating. That
way, hopefully there would only be one or two flashes going off at a
time, and the photographers could also enjoy watching part of court.
Annabelle Fitzsimmons
Barony of Namron
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:54:32 -0500
From: "Mike Dudley" <mike at clancircle.com>
Subject: [Ansteorra] Flash Photography at events
To: ansteorra <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID:
<4f733200709111054r35b1e387ke217ddbbb3b8cab9 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I had a question to put to everyone.
I know, for the most part, photography is one of the anachronisms we
accept in the SCA since we all like to look at the pictures. Though I
would like to disguise my camera bag, and possibly my camera a bit
better. (ideas welcome here)
A couple weekends back, I was at an event, that the use of my flash was
needed to insure acceptable pictures. The whole time hoping I wasn't
offending/annoying anyone popping off my flash every time someone
received an award (was during evening court, under a pavillion). Most
of the time I can make use of existing light, but as evening approaches,
or worse, things under large pavilions require the use of some fill
flash.
My question is, how do you feel about the use of flash at events?
--
- Mike (aka Collwyn)
casualgeek at gmail.com
http://www.jmtimeless.com
http://www.xanga.com/casualgeek
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 13:54:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sandra D <lady_sabine_dubois at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Fwd: Looking for....
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <935742.64645.qm at web59213.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hello dear lady. I am a Scarlet Sister. What can I do for you?
Lady Sabine Dubois
----- Original Message ----
From: kandace harris <thetexladi at sbcglobal.net>
To: Ansteorra <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2007 5:12:02 PM
Subject: [Ansteorra] Fwd: Looking for....
kandace harris <thetexladi at sbcglobal.net> wrote: Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 13:12:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: kandace harris <thetexladi at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Looking for....
To: Ansteorra <ansteorra at ansteorralist.org>
Greetings,
Would someone with the Scarlett Sisters please contact me privately.
thetexladi at sbcglobal.net
Thank You,
Ld, Kandyce
It's nice to be Important ...But....It's more important to be nice...Ldy, Kandyce of Oakclyffe
You see, in the final Analysis,...
It was never between you and them...
It's between You and God...
It's nice to be Important ...But....It's more important to be nice...Ldy, Kandyce of Oakclyffe
You see, in the final Analysis,...
It was never between you and them...
It's between You and God...
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:19:02 -0500
From: Chris Zakes <dontivar at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Flash Photography at events
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070911160932.0295e410 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 02:15 PM 9/11/2007, you wrote:
>Mike, You may as well be damned for poop as damned
>for stinking. If you can accept the use of the
>camera, you may as well accept the use of the flash.
>Additionally, in any group you are sure to offend
>someone, learn to accept that as well.
>Pavel
I disagree. A camera can be pretty unobtrusive, if done right, but a
flash going off is obvious to *everybody.* Saying that the flash is
no more unacceptable than the camera is kind of like saying "well, my
shoes aren't period, so I may as well wear a Led Zeppelin T-shirt
instead of a tunic."
Personally, I don't like flash photography at events, and would
rather it didn't happen.
-Tivar Moondragon
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 14:48:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: robert segrest <aumbob at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Flash Photography at events
To: ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
Message-ID: <763912.22485.qm at web55308.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Collwyn said:
"I had a question to put to everyone.
I know, for the most part, photography is one of the
anachronisms we
accept
in the SCA since we all like to look at the pictures.
Though I would
like
to disguise my camera bag, and possibly my camera a
bit better. (ideas
welcome here)
A couple weekends back, I was at an event, that the
use of my flash
was
needed to insure acceptable pictures. The whole time
hoping I wasn't
offending/annoying anyone popping off my flash every
time someone
received
an award (was during evening court, under a
pavillion). Most of the
time I
can make use of existing light, but as evening
approaches, or worse,
things
under large pavilions require the use of some fill
flash.
My question is, how do you feel about the use of flash
at events?"
The general responses seem to be that flash
photography is an unavoidable requirement of good
pictures and that pictures are desirable or downright
necessary
Although I am rarely personally offended by
anachronisms, even those more egregious than flash
photography, it seems that this discussions points out
something easily overlooked about the recreation that
we are pursuing.
Part of what makes the SCA appealing to me is the
recreation of oral traditions. Personally, I would
rather not see a picture of what happened in court (I
know that I am in a very small minority here). I
would rather hear someone tell me what happened in
court, complete with discriptions of people I don't
know, and pantomime of facial expressions etc. We are
recreating a time where pictorial reproduction of a
scene was incredibly difficult and reserved for
occassions of great significance. Even where such
reproductions were made (usually through paintings or
woodcuts), the artist projects himself into the scene
through the methods he uses to reproduce it.
I have heard stories: Michael of Monmouthshire riding
into court on a shield a la Surfboard, Sir Emrys'
knighting, The Impervious shield of Sir Erasmus, and
others. Now I do not know, or barely know, any of the
people involved in these stories, but they are
indelibly burnt into my memory. I'm sure pictures
were taken at the time (maybe not of Sir Erasmus), but
they could not possibly live up to the larger than
life images I have of these moments. In many ways the
"ephemeral" arts of song and story can outlast the
"permanent" arts of visual reproduction.
I do not wish to denigrate the photographer's art, and
I know that many do want pictures of the important
events of their lives, in and out of the SCA. But we
might do well to remember that there is more than one
way to make our history permanent, and some of them
are more in keeping with the ways of life we wish to
(re)create.
Fatthiopap Laszlo
____________________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 18:05:10 EDT
From: Baronman at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Flash Photography at events
To: ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
Message-ID: <c3d.1d14c35b.34186b16 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 9/11/2007 3:45:23 PM Central Daylight Time,
alden_drake at sbcglobal.net writes:
If you want another way to keep memories alive, you could always
commission a bard to compose a tale, poem, song, etc. that pertains to
the occasion in question. :)
Alden Drake
Or a portrait painter
Bors
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:59:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: L T <ldeerslayer at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ansteorra] Suggestion - Re: Flash Photography at events
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <346056.85291.qm at web52306.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Many times lighting is bad because it if often the last thing thought of when court is put together....
It might help everyone if you could figure out a way to do lighting
that was not too "modern"... and offer it to those arranging court.
Much of court gets missed by the populace as well as the those who wish to record court because of lack of lighting.
L DeerSlayer
Richard Threlkeld <rjt at softwareinnovation.com> wrote: I take a lot of pictures at events. I really try to avoid the use of flash.
That means I only get a few good pictures from most evening courts. I
usually ask the noble presiding about their feelings on flash. I point out
that I will not be able to get many pictures of any quality without it.
Sometimes they will ask you to only use it for major activity like
elevations. Other times they may ask you to not use flash at all.
To some extent it depends on the attempt they have made at making a period
court. If they are outside with only torches to light the area and are
really trying for a certain mood, then you should probably not use flash as
it will destroy what they are trying to achieve. If you are in a modern hall
with overhead lighting and they are using an electronic sound system, then
there is no mood to disrupt.
Use some discretion and get some rules from the noble.
Just my $0.02,
Caelin on Andrede
-----Original Message-----
From: ansteorra-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org
[mailto:ansteorra-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Mike Dudley
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 12:55 PM
To: ansteorra
Subject: [Ansteorra] Flash Photography at events
I had a question to put to everyone.
I know, for the most part, photography is one of the anachronisms we accept
in the SCA since we all like to look at the pictures. Though I would like
to disguise my camera bag, and possibly my camera a bit better. (ideas
welcome here)
A couple weekends back, I was at an event, that the use of my flash was
needed to insure acceptable pictures. The whole time hoping I wasn't
offending/annoying anyone popping off my flash every time someone received
an award (was during evening court, under a pavillion). Most of the time I
can make use of existing light, but as evening approaches, or worse, things
under large pavilions require the use of some fill flash.
My question is, how do you feel about the use of flash at events?
--
- Mike (aka Collwyn)
casualgeek at gmail.com
http://www.jmtimeless.com
http://www.xanga.com/casualgeek
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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 18:12:19 -0500
From: "Zubeydah Jamilla al-Badawiyya" <zubeydah at northkeep.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Flash Photography at events
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <008501c7f4c9$41353b80$3303010a at DELL01>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Fatthiopap Laszlo raises some very good points about the beauty of oral
history, and the 'gosh did you see at court, when...' Alas, these stories
are lost over time, and as the participation of the witnesses ebbs and
flows. He referenced three stories: "Michael of Monmouthshire riding into
court on a shield a la Surfboard, Sir Emrys' knighting, The Impervious
shield of Sir Erasmus, and others. " I've been participating for six years
here in Ansteorra -- I've never heard any of those stories. (I would love
to, btw.)
But when I am able to reference a photograph of what happened in a court,
it's far more likely that I or others will hear those stories - there's a
visual cue for people to respond to, rather than relying on memory or the
telephone game of, "I heard such and such happened".. I've been actively
soliciting such stories for several years now, and it's rare that anyone is
willing to provide such a description. It tends to get boiled down a dry
recitation of awards, and little else.
Take for example, the court at Namron's Beltane. I could show you: A bard
was called into court and asked to perform a specific piece. Many in the
audience were visibly moved. Moments after he finished, the Laurels were
called forth. The Crown asked if he would accept a Peerage. The bard, with
the gracious consent of Their Majesties, half dashed, half stumbled in shock
to where his lady sat nearby. He swept her up, holding tightly to her
hands. He asked her consent, knowing it would affect her life, too, should
he accept. She granted it, and he embraced her. Or, I could tell you:
"Finnican was asked to join the Laurels, and it was cool."
I wouldn't have wanted to miss that moment, and through a camera, I was able
to share it with others. The story is told clearly, in images, and with
additional snippets of words. Shared with all who couldn't make it, who will
never meet anyone who was there, or even from other Kingdoms who know and
care about this bard.
Most courts occur in the evening. Most evening courts require some form of
artificial light. A flash takes all of a second's interruption, to capture a
moment for participants and friends, Peers and others from across the
society. Why rob them of the ability to share in that moment?
Waxing loquacious,
Zubeydah
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:19:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Aislinn <aislinnofcravenhest at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Suggestion - Re: Flash Photography at events
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <586005.27570.qm at web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
A suggestion good gentles,,,,,ask the Nobles holding the court if they would mind posing for "after shots". This would not interfere with the ambiance of court or disturb those gentles that have been called forth. Please keep in mind that they also would like to get to the after party, so keep it short.
We all have family members or friends that for whatever reason could not attend and the only way to share is to take pictures. Even though a good Bards tale of the event is very welcome.
My 2 pence worth,
Aislinn of Cravenhest
L T <ldeerslayer at yahoo.com> wrote:
Many times lighting is bad because it if often the last thing thought of when court is put together....
It might help everyone if you could figure out a way to do lighting
that was not too "modern"... and offer it to those arranging court.
Much of court gets missed by the populace as well as the those who wish to record court because of lack of lighting.
L DeerSlayer
Richard Threlkeld wrote: I take a lot of pictures at events. I really try to avoid the use of flash.
That means I only get a few good pictures from most evening courts. I
usually ask the noble presiding about their feelings on flash. I point out
that I will not be able to get many pictures of any quality without it.
Sometimes they will ask you to only use it for major activity like
elevations. Other times they may ask you to not use flash at all.
To some extent it depends on the attempt they have made at making a period
court. If they are outside with only torches to light the area and are
really trying for a certain mood, then you should probably not use flash as
it will destroy what they are trying to achieve. If you are in a modern hall
with overhead lighting and they are using an electronic sound system, then
there is no mood to disrupt.
Use some discretion and get some rules from the noble.
Just my $0.02,
Caelin on Andrede
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End of Ansteorra Digest, Vol 17, Issue 14
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