[Ansteorra] Ansteorra Digest, Vol 21, Issue 53
jerry johnson
johnjx1 at gmail.com
Sat Jan 12 18:18:07 PST 2008
Unto their Royal Majesties and the Kingdom of Ansteorra:
I am a member of the now (dissolved) Western Region. I have been an
SCA member (subscribing, sustaining and family) for 31 years. I began
playing SCA in the then Freehold of the Great River, now Narun Kabirun (Las
Cruces, NM) in 1977. I have also been a member of Atenveld (1981) and Unser
Hafen (Fort Collins, Co 1981 - 1985). I have been a member of Bonwicke since
1986 and have served as herald and chirurgeon. I am currently a CIT
(Chirurgeon in training). I applied for the position of Western Region
chirurgeon but now understand that office will not be needed.
The foundations of our great Society have nothing to do with numbers and
everything to do with values, character, the dream of re-living the Current
Middle Ages and the opportunity to engage creativity, talent, and learn
things no one in the mundane world might ever have an opportunity to know.
The recent actions of the Kingdom toward the Western Region are
unprecendented and completely against everything the SCA claims to
represent.
In my time in the SCA, 31 years, I have NEVER seen a Kingdom act with such
secrecy, backhandedness, wanton disregard and disdain toward any of its
members as the Kingdom of Ansteorra toward the Western Region. I was present
when the Kingdom of Atenveldt created the Outlands as a region, then a
Principality, then a Kingdom. I was an SCA member when the entire Kingdom of
the Outlands probably had less members paying to play than the Western
Region has now..no one ever said "oh, we can just make them not EXIST any
more!" I was present when the rulers of the Outlands had to dissolve a
household because of mundane legal problems and have seen a couple of
INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS get thrown out of the SCA. I have never heard of there
being any precedent for the dissolution of an entire region wholesale with
such blatant disregard for its members.
In my humble opinion, formed since I moved to Texas 22 years ago, I believe
that the Western region has long been a thorn in the other Kingdom areas
side. I cannot believe that our dropping numbers are everything. I believe
that someone or someone(s) does not like to travel all the way out here.. I
believe this compares to the mundane politics which also favor the ignoring
of everything west of Waco.
Why can you not just leave well enough alone and let us play? Why do you
have to create more dissension, turmoil and upset? I know why...it is
because those who made this decision love POWER above all things and feel
that they have to use the SCA as a vehicle for their power because they
cannot have any in the mundane world. You will deny this, and you will
probably throw me out of the SCA for stating my opinion. However, I live in
America, not twelfth century Europe, and feel that this decision of the
Kingdom was ill-thought out, short-sighted and nonsensical.
Respectfully submitted
Lady Morrigan dubh'Longardail
mundanely Judith Johnson, RN, MSN, Family Nurse Practitioner Certified
On Jan 12, 2008 2:23 PM, <ansteorra-request at lists.ansteorra.org> wrote:
> Send Ansteorra mailing list submissions to
> ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> ansteorra-request at lists.ansteorra.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> ansteorra-owner at lists.ansteorra.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Ansteorra digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: How to help the West (Patrick R)
> 2. Re: Corenation time table.. (Patrick R)
> 3. Re: Dissolutions..pop numbers.. (Rose & Chad)
> 4. The Western Region (kandace harris)
> 5. An inquiry (Steve Acker)
> 6. Re: An inquiry (Peter Holland)
> 7. Re: An inquiry (Baronman at aol.com)
> 8. Re: An inquiry (Chass)
> 9. Re: How to help the West (Robert Fitzmorgan)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:35:08 -0800 (PST)
> From: Patrick R <tex_yankee2004 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] How to help the West
> To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID: <544699.84527.qm at web35613.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Ok I thought I was asking why the shires could not stay and become part of
> another region stay intact just not have to worry about making the numbers
> needed for a region themselves. sorry if i was not clear
> Dante
>
> Jay Rudin <rudin at ev1.net> wrote:
> Penelope asked:
>
>
> > Both Dante and Tivar Moondragon asked the same question I had, why
> > can't the local grroups be added to other kingdoms or put on kingdom
> > land rather than dissolved? I know from personal experience how hard it
> > is to reform a group once it is dissolved.
>
> That's exactly what's going to happen. I remember reading that the
> affected groups were asked if they want to become part of Trelac or
> Bonwicke, with the suggestion that the augmented Trelac consider applying
> for baronial status.
>
> Robin of Gilwell / Jay Rudin
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ansteorra mailing list
> Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it
> now.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:41:50 -0800 (PST)
> From: Patrick R <tex_yankee2004 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Corenation time table..
> To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID: <212869.85584.qm at web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Thanks for the reply , now I know when to wake up tomorrow. Have a safe
> trip everyone.
> Dante (sitting in my hotel room ready to go to sleep)
>
> "lambdakennels1 at juno.com" <lambdakennels1 at juno.com> wrote:
> armor inspection at 8 am
> fighting begins at 9 am
> stepping down court begins at 11 am
> break for lunch
> coronation begins at 2 pm
> meal at 6 pm
>
> schedule subject to change at TRM or TRH pleasure.
>
> Lady Stephanie Lilburn
> Stephanie Smith, Ph.D
> Hunt County, Texas
> Owned by a Poodle and an Australian Cattle Dog
> K5AMK
>
>
> -- "Stephanie Drake" wrote:
> I think I saw someone post the other day that stepping down court was at
> 11:00 am? Can anyone confirm that?
>
> Mercedes
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Patrick R"
> To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc."
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 12:26 PM
> Subject: [Ansteorra] Corenation time table..
>
>
> > After checking the website, the only timetable I could find was for the
> > fighting in the morning. Does anyone have an idea what time the ceremony
> > starts? I am trying to plan my trip.
> >
> > Dante
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try
> it
> > now.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ansteorra mailing list
> > Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> > http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ansteorra mailing list
> Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Click here to save up to 75% on disability insurance.
>
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3mJLyzX0xsH9KV2Mq6d4ZWkpQEzuLMUIzWcbmNXCbAN6yqKN/
> _______________________________________________
> Ansteorra mailing list
> Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it
> now.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:50:26 -0800 (PST)
> From: Rose & Chad <love at roseandchad.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Dissolutions..pop numbers..
> To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID: <481516.57230.qm at web710.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hmm... I guess I meant something more detailed than that, as those are
> very broad topics. However, on second thought, it would probably be a very
> long post and not neccesarily list-appropriate. :)
>
> R the O
>
> L T <ldeerslayer at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Rose,
>
> The Acting Kingdom Seneschal did state why...
> in the first of the e-mails titled "Dissolutions..."
>
> (copied from the Ansteorra archives...)
>
>
>
> Good Morning,
>
> This weekend at Bonwicke 12th Night, Their Highnesses, Mistress Saundra
> (Kingdom Exchequer), Baron Kainin (Kingdom Chronicler), and myself (Acting
> Kingdom Seneschal) presented to and fielded questions from the populace of
> the Western Region some very sad and heart-wrenching news. As has been
> posted already, the Western Region and 5 of its Shires will be dissolved
> at
> the upcoming Coronation. These groups will be polled in order to give
> feedback on which group they want to be consolidated into and then which
> region that larger group will be merged with.
>
> While there are many rumors flying around, this decision was not made my
> any single individual and did not come lightly, quickly, nor in a void.
> There have been issues with recruitment, retention, reporting and
> acceptable
> officer applicant pools for years. This has been the case from the local
> level through the regional offices.
>
> As was stated to these fine individuals, we weighed everything imaginable
> in this decision including alternate solutions such as making the groups
> cantons or moving them to different regions but nothing short of
> consolidation solved the bigger picture issues. While the timing may
> appear
> horrible on the surface, there is never a good time to relay news of this
> magnitude and this allowed the most individuals affected to be present for
> the discussion. As well, while we were not required to go to Bonwicke 12th
> Night to discuss this with them since it will be read into law at
> Coronation, we felt strongly that the people of the region deserved us to
> be
> there in person to present the information and answer their questions.
>
> While it is sad news, there are hopes that something new can come out of
> this. The members of the groups that choose to consolidate with Trelac
> will
> be given time and encouragement to stabilize and work towards becoming a
> Barony. This is the small silver lining in an otherwise ugly thundercloud.
>
> On a side-note, here is no reason that Gothic War can not continue as a
> multi-group event. There is no reason that they can not hold their
> previous
> events as local calendar events.
>
> This drastic decision is supported unanimously by the Crown and Great
> Officers of State because we feel it is what is right for the kingdom. In
> front of these people, I made a promise to them that if they can solve
> their
> historical problems and reform, I will personally go to each group to
> thank
> them and apologize for these actions taken against them.
>
> This news is hard on the entire kingdom, but most of all the almost 50
> members of these groups being dissolved. They will have a hard road in
> front
> of them, please show them your support and lend them your council.
>
> In Service,
> Master Phelim Gervase called Pug
> Acting Kingdom Seneschal
>
>
>
> Rose & Chad wrote: In the end, though, why are we theorizing? Why can't
> whomever is in charge of that (The Kingdom Senech, I think, but could so be
> wrong) just say exactly what it was? Do they have to wait until Coronation
> to announce why or some such?
>
> Rose the Confused, rofl
>
> ksullivan6 at cox.net wrote:
> One of the stated reasons for the dissolutions in the Western region was
> retention, so I went to look at the numbers for each region and the
> kingdom.here is what I found using the data I found on the seneschals web
> page.
> over the last year each region had a net loss of population
> Coastal lost .7% of their population
> Southern lost 15%
> Central lost 2.3%
> Western lost 16.3 %
> Northern lost 3.2%
> Kingdom overall lost 125 members 3.2% of this 125 Southern lost 73 members
> Western lost only 22.
> '07 v '05, 2 regions had a net gain while the other 3 had a net loss
> Coastal gained 6.6%
> Northern gained 4.6%
> Southern lost 16.2%
> Central lost 8%
> Western lost 15.6 %
> Kingdom lost 2.2%
> Now as the Kingdom only counts subsribing members here are those numbers
> '07 v '06
> Central lost 3%
> Coastal lost 2%
> Northern gained 3%
> Southern lost 13.3%
> Western lost 14%
> '07 v '05
> Central gained 3.6%
> Coastal lost 12.5%
> Northern lost 2.7%
> Southern lost18.9%
> Western lost 22.1%
> Also by the Kingdom regulations for population minimum requirements
> as of 8/1/07 only 2 groups in the kingdom are below the minimum and
> neither of them are in the groups that are being sanctioned.
> Over all it appears that most of the Kingdom has a problem with retention,
> and it appears by the numbers that Southern is in the same boat with
> Western, so why is Western being singled out?
> > There have been issues with recruitment, retention, reporting and
> acceptable
> > officer applicant pools for years. This has been the case from the local
> > level through the regional offices.
> --
> Alix
> Work hard,keep the ceremonies,live peaceably, and unite your hearts.
> (Hopi)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ansteorra mailing list
> Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ansteorra mailing list
> Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
> _______________________________________________
> Ansteorra mailing list
> Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 22:43:59 -0800 (PST)
> From: kandace harris <thetexladi at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: [Ansteorra] The Western Region
> To: Ansteorra <ansteorralist at ansteorra.org>, Ansteorra
> <Ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID: <128404.54898.qm at web80211.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> To all Members in Ansteorra,
>
> I have been reading and trying to find in the "rules' , "by-laws" and
> anything thing else that I could read concerning this desolation of the
> Western Region. There are 4 pages dealing with sanction for 1 person....we
> are talking about a whole division of people and I only found 1 paragraph
> that comes close to addressing this and it really was not about doing away
> with a Region. In fact, I could not find really anything that states the
> process for doing this or the reasons for doing this.
>
> In looking this up and studying the laws that govern Us, it dawned on
> me that ...
>
> You can't have it both ways. If this is a dictatorship, ..fine...
> then every Crown that becomes Crown needs to make-up their on laws, send it
> to the people, and then we will follow them as long as they are Crown.
>
> BUT....."If we as a volunteer group live by Mundane laws and S.C.A. laws
> then ,We, as a member of this volunteer group have a right to be informed
> with a 30 day publication notice. This is a Major Change in our Lands. We
> must speak up. If We do not...then every Shire and Canton should be in a
> mass panic....because ...You could be next.
>
> I've tried reading all the post that has gone across the list and
> ...there were so many of them, but not one of them said .."Oh , this is a
> good thing to do." So Why is this being done and most important...Why are We
> ,as a member of the Populace, letting it happen?
>
> Tomorrow , alot of you will be going to Coronation and most of you who
> "should" have opted not to go ...but ... for the ones that are going...SPEAK
> -UP...Make this the topic of any conversation you have . Let everyone know
> that as a Member of this Volunteer group, your voice needs to be heard and
> you should get to say yea/nea. You paid (Mundanely) to be a member of this
> group and why pay good money and have no say so in anything that the "powers
> that be" decide to do. I mean no offense Unto Their Royal Majesties, I can't
> believe this is all your decision "only". We all have good friends out
> there.). Losing Middleford was so sad and so not right...but I tend to get
> personal about that one.
>
> Please , let Us know what the problems are. Give your populace a
> chance to help the Western Region. You Have really good people out there, in
> all of the Regions, that are problem solvers. Does it really have to
> dissolved NOW? Why not get a panel of members
> started and give them a chance. This is so important. If You all, who
> ever you are, have already done this, then let Us know
> the...what/when/where's of you work. But to just drop then????
>
> I do not agree with this and If it really was "middle ages" times....(
> this opinion would be an "off -with -your- head" opinion) However, someone
> is giving a lot of land away...Have any of y'all seen a sunset in the
> west....Gone to Gothic Wars....visited with any of the populace of the
> Western Region?... I'm a 4th. generation born-and-bread Texan and you're
> giving My land away and I have friends that still live on that land out
> there. And I love Gothic Wars.....
>
> The tears of Ansteorra have started to fall...but tonite, I shall
> rest...
> for I will need to be strong tomorrow.
>
> Love to you all,
>
> Lady Kandyce Of Oakclyffe
>
>
> It's nice to be Important ...But....It's more important
> to be nice...Ldy, Kandyce of Oakclyffe
>
> You see, in the final Analysis,...
> It was never between you and them...
>
> It's between You and God...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 08:27:56 -0600
> From: "Steve Acker" <SteveAcker at satx.rr.com>
> Subject: [Ansteorra] An inquiry
> To: <Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID: <000601c85527$535ba6a0$6401a8c0 at f7s1q8>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> It is my understanding that we in the known world elect our Barons and
> Baronesses by vote of the populace. Why is Crown not selected in this
> manner as well?
>
> In Service,
> Joachim von Acker
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 08:40:50 -0600
> From: "Peter Holland" <pholland64 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] An inquiry
> To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID:
> <2c3c1c6f0801120640o318f9939j3005bbc1b222ca60 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> It is not an election, my understanding is that is called a polling of the
> Populous
> With that information and consultation of Peirs and the Great Officers of
> State the Crown makes their choice.
> As I say that is my understanding hopefully someone who knows Copora and
> can
> quote it will help you and me understand better
>
> Hope this helps a bit
> Ld Svipdagr of Northumbria
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 10:01:55 EST
> From: Baronman at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] An inquiry
> To: ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> Message-ID: <d1b.1910a10d.34ba3063 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>
>
>
> The Crown appoints the people they believe will do the best job as
> Territorial Baron and Baroness. They can abjure to the wishes of the
> populous or
> invest anyone they feel will do the best job. The populous is urged to
> advise the
> Crown but the Crown ultimately appoints whom ever they wish.
>
> Baron Bors of Lothian
> Baron Loch Soillier
> Malleus et Deus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:35:48 -0600
> From: "Chass" <charinthalis at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] An inquiry
> To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID: <002b01c85530$d18dee30$4901a8c0 at chaosinc>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Its not an election. Some crowns say "we will listen to the populace for
> their likes and dislikes and take that into consideration". People have
> differeing opinions in how brass hats are chosen.
>
> Charinthalis Del Sans
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Acker" <SteveAcker at satx.rr.com>
> To: <Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 8:27 AM
> Subject: [Ansteorra] An inquiry
>
>
> > It is my understanding that we in the known world elect our Barons and
> > Baronesses by vote of the populace. Why is Crown not selected in this
> > manner as well?
> >
> > In Service,
> > Joachim von Acker
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:22:59 -0600
> From: "Robert Fitzmorgan" <fitzmorgan at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] How to help the West
> To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID:
> <52f0db3e0801121222k32461d02x710a2608b9b9ff10 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Suppose the the populace of Black Lake chooses to be members of
> Bonwicke. I don't see any reason that Bonwicke can't schedule meetings
> to
> take place at the times and places where the Black Lake meetings take
> place
> now. There can be a deputy seneschal to preside over the meetings.
> In order to have an official fighter practice they would need to have
> an
> authorized Marshall and any warranted officer present.
> The meeting rooms can be reserved in the name of the Barony of Bonwicke
> rather than the Shire of Black Lake.
> It's not a perfect solution, and I don't intend to minimize what is
> happening, but there are other choices than to drive two hours, or stop
> playing locally.
>
> Robert Fitzmorgan
>
>
> On Jan 11, 2008 8:51 PM, Chris Zakes <dontivar at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > But that's *not* what I suggested. I suggested dissolving/folding the
> > Western region into two or three other regions and leaving the
> > existing groups intact.
> >
> > Saying the other groups can just join up with Bonwick or Trelac is
> > silly. Going by the distances and drive times posted by Baroness
> > Safiye a couple of days ago, and assuming that Trelac and Bonwicke
> > would each get the groups closest to them, we would end up with:
> >
> > Trelac plus Crossrode Keep (88 miles away) Mendersham (90 miles away)
> > and Blacklake (140 miles away) to become a potential barony.
> >
> > Bonwicke to now include Adlersrhue (125 miles away) and Amloc (175 miles
> > away.)
> >
> > So the *closest* sub-group would now be more than an hour's drive
> > from its barony, and three of them would be more than two hours'
> > drive. How well do you think Elfsea would do if the nearest SCA
> > meetings and fighter practices were in Emerald Keep? How would The
> > Steppes do if the nearest SCA meetings and fighter practices were in
> > Namron?
> >
> > -Tivar Moondragon
> >
> >
>
> --
> "If you haven't found something strange during the day, it hasn't been
> much
> of a day." John A. Wheeler
>
> Fitzmorgan at gmail.com
> Yahoo IM: robert_fitzmorgan
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ansteorra mailing list
> Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
>
>
> End of Ansteorra Digest, Vol 21, Issue 53
> *****************************************
>
More information about the Ansteorra
mailing list