[Ansteorra] Ansteorra Digest, Vol 21, Issue 55

[jerry johnson]

Unto Robert Fitzmorgan:

In re: Tivar's letters:

One little problem with, say, Blacklake meeting at Bonwicke and Bonwicke at
Blacklake etc:
Please GET THIS: THE TWO ARE 120 (ONE HUNDRED TWENTY) MILES APART!!!!!

How would it be if we were Kingdom and we told Steppes that you had to go
play in Byrn Galad or Bjornsborg every week or two? Would  YOU BE ABLE TO
AFFORD THE GAS MONEY AND YOUR MUNDANE LIFE TOO?

The cost of living in Western Ansteorra is much lower than in Steppes and
other regions of the Kingdom because there are very few people here that
make more than minimum wage. A few years ago, when the Western region was
formed, many in the other parts of the Kingdom were against the formation of
this region. Our neighbors the Outlands proposed that the Western Region
could if we wished become a Principality of them, just as the Outlands
itself had been a principality of Atenveldt. Rather than give up our lands,
the Western Region did become a part of Ansteorra (this is not fiction, I
was at the meeting where it was discussed)

Perhaps we in the Western region should request to join the Outlands. I bet
they would be happy to have  us enlarge their Realm.

Or maybe all of us paid up members should send our membership cards in to
the BOD and see what Master Giles et al think of what could possibly be
going on out here to cause us to SECEDE....REMEMBER SECESSION, TEXAS?
REMEMBER THE ALAMO?

Lady Morrigan dubh'Longardail
Bonwicke

On Jan 12, 2008 11:06 PM, <ansteorra-request at lists.ansteorra.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re:  How to help the West (Chris Zakes)
>   2. Re:  How to help the West (Robert Fitzmorgan)
>   3. Re:  The Western Region (Bob Dewart)
>   4.  Just out of Curiosity (Bob Dewart)
>   5. Re:  An inquiry (L T)
>   6. Re:  An inquiry (Catrin ferch Maelgwn)
>   7. Re:  z xz (willowdewisp at juno.com)
>   8. Re:  Dissolutions..pop numbers.. (willowdewisp at juno.com)
>   9. Re:  Dissolutions..pop numbers.. (willowdewisp at juno.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:08:53 -0600
> From: Chris Zakes <dontivar at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] How to help the West
> To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20080112155841.03387158 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> At 02:22 PM 1/12/2008, you wrote:
>
> >    Suppose the the populace of Black Lake chooses to be members of
> >Bonwicke.   I don't see any reason that Bonwicke can't schedule meetings
> to
> >take place at the times and places where the Black Lake meetings take
> place
> >now.  There can be a deputy seneschal to preside over the meetings.
> >     In order to have an official fighter practice they would need to
> have an
> >authorized Marshall and any warranted officer present.
> >     The meeting rooms can be reserved in the name of the Barony of
> Bonwicke
> >rather than the Shire of Black Lake.
> >     It's not a perfect solution, and I don't intend to minimize what is
> >happening, but there are other choices than to drive two hours, or stop
> >playing locally.
> >
> >Robert Fitzmorgan
>
>
> They could, of course, but if the Deputy Seneschal of Bonwicke In
> Charge of The Place Formerly Known As Blacklake is holding metings in
> The Place Formerly Known As Blacklake and the Deputy Marshal of
> Bonwicke In Charge of The Place Formerly Known As Blacklake is
> holding fighter practices in The Place Formerly Known As Blacklake,
> how does that really change anything from what we have now?
>
>         -Tivar Moondragon
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 18:32:09 -0600
> From: "Robert Fitzmorgan" <fitzmorgan at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] How to help the West
> To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <52f0db3e0801121632s51d78b14r9187b1ce65e614ca at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>    I wasn't at any of the meetings where this action was discussed.  All I
> know is what I have read on the list.  Without knowing the reasons why the
> Shires are being disbanded I can't make any sort of sensible answer to
> that.
>
> On Jan 12, 2008 4:08 PM, Chris Zakes <dontivar at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > At 02:22 PM 1/12/2008, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > They could, of course, but if the Deputy Seneschal of Bonwicke In
> > Charge of The Place Formerly Known As Blacklake is holding metings in
> > The Place Formerly Known As Blacklake and the Deputy Marshal of
> > Bonwicke In Charge of The Place Formerly Known As Blacklake is
> > holding fighter practices in The Place Formerly Known As Blacklake,
> > how does that really change anything from what we have now?
> >
> >         -Tivar Moondragon
> >
> >
>    I wasn't at any of the meetings where this action was discussed.  All I
> know is what I have read on the list.  Without knowing the reasons why the
> Shires are being disbanded I can't make any sort of sensible estimate on
> how
> this will compare to having left the Shires in place.
>   Sub-communities within the Barony will not need a treasurer.  If they
> have an official Fighter Practice they will need to file wavers, but other
> than that there shouldn't be any reports or paperwork.  To have an
> official
> Fighter Practice there will need to be at least one warranted officer
> present, but other than that the deputy officers need not be warranted, or
> warrantable officers.  The sub-communities will not have their own bank
> account, any expenditures would have to be approved by and come from the
> official branch.
>    I have no idea what the problems are that led the Kingdom to take these
> actions.  Knowing the people involved, I am assuming that they have good
> reasons for what they are doing, and I take them at their word that they
> are
> doing what they think is best.
>     There is no doubt that this will create a lot of problems for a lot of
> people.  I'm not trying to minimize that.  Most of the discussion on this
> list is heavily focused on the problems.  That's natural.  People are
> still
> in the stunned, hurt and angry stage.  I tend to be a solution focused
> person.  Once a problem is defined, I tend to focus on finding a solution
> rather than focus on the problem.  You were pointing out a problem, the
> long
> travel times that people in the disbanded groups will have to attend local
> meetings and practices.  I was just pointing out a possible solution.  I
> am
> not saying that this is the right solution for every group, but it may
> work
> for some.  In the end the people of the West will have to come together
> and
> find the right solutions for themselves.
>
> Robert
>
>
> --
> "If you haven't found something strange during the day, it hasn't been
> much
> of a day."     John A. Wheeler
>
> Fitzmorgan at gmail.com
> Yahoo IM: robert_fitzmorgan
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 20:37:39 -0600
> From: "Bob Dewart" <gilli at hot.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] The Western Region
> To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID: <000c01c8558d$4c515f10$ac7d7446 at Burkhaven>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>        reply-type=original
>
> >From what I've seen, it's pretty much a done deal; however, doing 5 at
> once
> might change the mix.  If not, then at the next BOD meeting , when the
> zapping of the 5 Shires come up; they'll say, "How regrettable. Next item
> on
> the agenda?"  or something very similar.  As far as they are concerned,
> groups come; groups go....
>
> However, there can still be a GREAT life after being trashed out by the
> Ansteorra.  Contact me off line for details.  :)
>
> Gilli
> Burkhaven, An Odyssey of Learning
> http://home.hot.rr.com/burkhaven/
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Fitzmorgan" <fitzmorgan at gmail.com>
> To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 2:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] The Western Region
>
>
> > On Jan 12, 2008 12:43 AM, kandace harris <thetexladi at sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >> To all Members in Ansteorra,
> >>
> >>     I have been reading and trying to find in the "rules' , "by-laws"
> and
> >> anything thing else that I could read concerning this desolation of the
> >> Western Region. There are 4 pages dealing with sanction for 1
> >> person....we
> >> are talking about a whole division of people  and I only found 1
> >> paragraph
> >> that comes close to addressing this and it really was not about doing
> >> away
> >> with a Region. In fact, I could not find really anything that states
> the
> >> process for doing this or the reasons for doing this.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >   The Regions in Ansteorra are an administrative convenience created by
> > the
> > Kingdom, and they can be created, reorganized and dissolved by the
> Kingdom
> > at the will of the Crown, with the approval of the Kingdom Seneschal.
> > The
> > Corporation has nothing to do with it.
> >   Cantons, Shires, Provinces, Baronies, Principalities and Kingdoms are
> > officially recognized branches of the SCA inc.  It requires an act by by
> > the
> > BOD to to change the status of one of these branches.  So the disbanding
> > of
> > the Shires is not official until approved by the BOD, but the
> dissolution
> > of
> > the region is done when the Crown says it is done.
> >
> >
> > --
> > "If you haven't found something strange during the day, it hasn't been
> > much
> > of a day."     John A. Wheeler
> >
> > Fitzmorgan at gmail.com
> > Yahoo IM: robert_fitzmorgan
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ansteorra mailing list
> > Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> > http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 21:26:35 -0600
> From: "Bob Dewart" <gilli at hot.rr.com>
> Subject: [Ansteorra] Just out of Curiosity
> To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID: <000401c85594$1b285d10$ac7d7446 at Burkhaven>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>        reply-type=original
>
> OK, I'll do it for all us folks who, for one reason or another, couldn't
> be
> there today.   What all went on at Coronation today?  Who got awards?? Who
> got BANISHED??  You know, all that sort of thing.
>
> Gilli
> Burkhaven, An Odyssey of Learning
> http://home.hot.rr.com/burkhaven/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 20:22:08 -0800 (PST)
> From: L T <ldeerslayer at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] An inquiry
> To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID: <227045.79659.qm at web52303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> The Crown (Known World wide) is required to ask the opinion of the
> populace of the Barony in regard to choosing it's Baron and Baroness by a
> polling (except in one Barony in Japan where it is chosen by competition.)
>
> They make their decisions based on many different factors... including the
> opinion of the populace of the Barony.
>
> I find it kind of offensive that you use the term "brass hat" in such a
> way...
> for a number of reasons... the biggest being because Crowns take their
> responsiblity of choosing the heads of a Barony seriously and strive to do
> the best they can with the information they have.
>
> I...for one wouldn't wish to be in their shoes in trying to figure out who
> of the proposed candidates would be the best... it's gotta be one of the
> toughest choices that a Crown makes...
>
> To answer Mr Acker's question... we choose our Crowns by combat because it
> is codified in the Corpora and Bylaws of the SCA.
>
> contained here:
> http://www.sca.org/docs/govdocs.pdf
>
> There has been discussion a number of times in the in the past of ways it
> might be changed but no satisfactory way has been found.
>
> L DeerSlayer
>
>
> Chass <charinthalis at sbcglobal.net> wrote: Its not an election. Some crowns
> say "we will listen to the populace for
> their likes and dislikes and take that into consideration". People have
> differeing opinions in how brass hats are chosen.
>
> Charinthalis Del Sans
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Acker"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 8:27 AM
> Subject: [Ansteorra] An inquiry
>
>
> > It is my understanding that we in the known world elect our Barons and
> > Baronesses by vote of the populace.  Why is Crown not selected in this
> > manner as well?
> >
> > In Service,
> > Joachim von Acker
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
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>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 22:26:49 -0600
> From: "Catrin ferch Maelgwn" <ladycatrin at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] An inquiry
> To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <40d85efc0801122026o7bb3e4do6c5558d68a234294 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Can you really imagine the row if the entire kingdom had to come to a
> consensus about something every six months?
>
> -Catrin ferch Maelgwn
>
> On Jan 12, 2008 8:27 AM, Steve Acker <SteveAcker at satx.rr.com> wrote:
> > It is my understanding that we in the known world elect our Barons and
> Baronesses by vote of the populace.  Why is Crown not selected in this
> manner as well?
> >
> > In Service,
> > Joachim von Acker
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ansteorra mailing list
> > Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> > http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:19:41 GMT
> From: "willowdewisp at juno.com" <willowdewisp at juno.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] z xz
> To: faelancaimbeul at gmail.com, ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> Message-ID: <20080111.121941.17459.1 at webmail10.vgs.untd.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Thank you about making the point that "fighters" do other things. As a
> Household of fighters I sometimes get a little upset when all the other
> activities I do are put against fighting.
> willow
>
> _____________________________________________________________
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:37:46 GMT
> From: "willowdewisp at juno.com" <willowdewisp at juno.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Dissolutions..pop numbers..
> To: ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> Message-ID: <20080111.143746.20727.0 at webmail10.vgs.untd.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> If the Kingdom feels that a larger number of people are needed in each
> group than the Kingdom should put that forward in a Kingdom wide policy
> statement. This new policy should be applied to every single group in the
> Kingdom. The groups affected by the new policy should get an individual
> letters to the populace. The groups should be then given time to get more
> members. Again if the problem is not having enough officers then the
> populace should be informed in a open letter or meeting. Relying on officers
> that are having problems to inform the populace doesn't work
> Caelin even Baronies sometimes do not have enough core members. It is only
> fair to be told that action is going to be taken. One of the groups that is
> being dissolve has all the members required by current policy and has
> deputies for each office except for Senechal who took over the office on the
> first of Jan. and hasn't had time to find a deputy.
> The only way people can fix problems is if they have full knowledge of the
> problems. Also SCA groups are always changing. If a group had a problem five
> years ago and then has a similar problem today I do not think the past
> should be held against them. I believe due process should start all over
> again. I believe if there has been enough time for a change in officers then
> the new problem should be treated as new. This is assuming the old problem
> had been fixed.
> The problems in the West have a base in a smaller recruitment pool. This
> is a constant problem but putting groups that are so far apart together is a
> paperwork solution not a real solution.
> Willow de Wisp
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:38:14 GMT
> From: "willowdewisp at juno.com" <willowdewisp at juno.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Dissolutions..pop numbers..
> To: ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> Message-ID: <20080111.153814.5055.1 at webmail04.vgs.untd.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> If the kingdom officers feel that there is evidence that the officer
> pool is not large enough then it is possibly because they cant find
> enough qualified applicants for the jobs or that the ones who are
> applying and being given the positions aren't doing everything they need
> to be doing.
>
> The health of a branch is about a lot more than just raw numbers or the
> names on a roster.
>
> Alright this is true but I have know Baronies that are having problems
> filling officer rosters and getting volunteers for jobs. If we are going to
> start axing groups because they lack acceptable replacement then we need to
> publish the requirements and make sure everyone in the kingdom knows about
> them.
> willow
>
> _____________________________________________________________
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>
> ------------------------------
>
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> Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
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>
> End of Ansteorra Digest, Vol 21, Issue 55
> *****************************************
>