[Ansteorra] World History in High School

[Owen Van Meter]

It's great that those students could do that. It shows that the educational 
system there seems to be working. But what about the ones of us who live in 
the middle of nowhere Texas where the mentallity is "if you can't ride it, 
rope it, dip it or chew it" it dosen't amount to anything but a waste of 
time.

                                    Ld. Griffin
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Patrick R" <tex_yankee2004 at yahoo.com>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] World History in High School


> What most of the people who have responded to this post seem to be looking 
> for is some reflective (omg Dewey raises his head again) thinking based on 
> what their children are learning. The dates are important only as the 
> basis to start the thinking process and should not be an end it itself. 
> What caused an event, what happed because of an event, how did it effect 
> the people then and finally how does it effect us now.
>
> Back in the dark ages (otherwise know as when I went to school) reflective 
> thinking was not emphasized as it should be or even as it is today. I have 
> mixed feelings about standardized tests, they cause the teacher to teach 
> for the test and sometimes place reflective thinking as less important. I 
> can not say for sure if our schools are better now then in the past. What 
> I do realize is we have a problem. The last study I saw ranked Texas 35th 
> in the country of graduating students with less than 70% graduation rate 
> and of those 25% were GED. If teachers have to place the emphasis on 
> standardized material, they must also find a way to challenge the student.
>
> About ten years ago I part of an assignment for Rutgers Graduate school in 
> social studies education was to evaluate the New Jersey History 
> requirements for high school students and to my total surprise it was very 
> much geared to reflective thinking. The event was stated and the student 
> had to answer questions about it such as why it happened, what was the 
> result, how it effected people, all very reflective things. For the most 
> part, I believe if the student can answer those questions then they have a 
> good understanding of the event in its historical context. The irony is 
> that the Professors complained that teachers were not teaching with an 
> emphasis on reflective thinking. Yet they hated the idea of 
> standardization because it effects Academic Freedom (I argued that point).
>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 7/18/08, Richard Threlkeld <rjt at softwareinnovation.com> wrote:
>
> From: Richard Threlkeld <rjt at softwareinnovation.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] World History in High School
> To: "'Michael Kahn'" <Kahn at West-Point.org>, "'Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, 
> Inc.'" <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 1:24 PM
>
> I give you your major premise, that dates are important. My statement was
> they are the least important of the historical elements. The things that
> happened, why they happened, and how they affected what happened after 
> them,
> IMHO, are more important than the exact date. The order of things is
> important and dates are how we keep track of that ordering, but I've seen
> quite a few kids, including my own, sitting and memorizing a date and a 
> half
> a line description of something that happened on that date. They did not
> learn much about any of the happenings, only the name and date.
>
> The phrase "If you don't learn about history, you are condemned to
> repeat
> it" is often given as a reason to learn about history. Learning the dates
> and a title for each does little to help you make decisions about what to 
> do
> now. Learning what other people did in similar circumstances and how it
> turned out for them, on the other hand, may well keep you from having a 
> bad
> outcome.
>
> In service,
> Caelin on Andrede
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ansteorra-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org
> [mailto:ansteorra-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Michael Kahn
> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 12:21 PM
> To: Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc.
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] World History in High School
>
> Richard Threlkeld wrote:
>> The date is the least important
>> part of the things to be learned. Of course, it is the easiest to test.
>
> The date anchors the event in history.  The date tells you the relative
> time of the event compared to other events, providing you context to help
> understand the world at the time of the event.  No historical event
> happens in a vacuum.  That which has gone before and that which is
> contemporary have great influence.  Time is the driving force that
> determines the who, the what, and the why.
>
> For a trivial example, how do we know William Wallace did not wear a kilt?
> Mel Gibson would have us believe he did.  How do we know he did not
> father a child with the princess in question (Princess Isabelle, I
> believe)?  You can't just look that stuff up in a book, but you can
> research the *dates* of the various events and realize that the Princess'
> child was born *years* after Wallace died, or that not even the belted
> plaid existed until centuries after Wallace's bones had decayed to dust.
> It is the dates that tell you such things.
>
> Why didn't the Germans use the atomic bomb on London or Moscow?
>
> Why didn't the Crusaders load their cannons with grapeshot and mow down
> the Saracens by the bushel?
>
> Why do are the Three Musketeers always depicted as great swordsmen when
> the musket played such a pivotal role in wars such as the American
> Revolution, the Napoleaonic wars, and even our Civil War?
>
> Why weren't Civil War prisoners (on both sides) given the treatment
> required by the Geneva Conventions?
>
> Why didn't the Colonials use Gatling guns against the British and Hessians
> who lined up and marched in close order?
>
> Anachronisms.  But you're aware of an anachronism only if you know the
> relevant dates.  Here's another date for you, one that means everything to
> the date of 1517:  1439.  Without it, Martin Luther's posting of his 95
> theses would have been but the forgotten act of an insignificant man that
> the world would little note nor long remember.
>
>  Miles Grey
>
>
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