[Ansteorra] Proposed change in waterbearing

Tue Jun 17 11:48:18 PDT 2008

You do realize that in many places waivers are pretty much worth less than the paper they are written on? Years ago waterbearing was set up by guilds and households and it ran very well, this would simply be pulling that out of our hip pocket and returning to it. Trying to have every event meet whatever codes they face in whatever area would be a paperwork nightmare. Imagine in some areas they could require you to have a food handlers license, those usually are not free and require renewal and other items to get, this so you can out bottles of water. But if you feel we as an organization feel we should write it in to the poted email and let them know. IMO the strain on our resources to meet all the mundane requirements make this seem reasonable.
 Robert

--- On Tue, 6/17/08, Joe McGrew <oscagne at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Joe McGrew <oscagne at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Proposed change in waterbearing
> To: ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> Cc: "Comhradh" <comhradh at lists.clanblackmoor.org>, comments at sca.org
> Date: Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 1:22 PM
> This is a terrible idea.  On the face of it we are putting
> people at
> practical risk in order to protect against a theoretical
> risk.
> 
> This also sends a message that the Society is devaluing
> waterbearing.
> You can disclaim that as often as you want, but the message
> will still
> be there in the subtext of the measure.
> 
> If the Society is this concerned about it, add a clause to
> the site
> and membership waiver to cover illness received from
> communal water
> and/or enact society-wide regulations of Society
> branch-provided
> water.
> 
> Putting the membership at risk is not a proper response
> 
> Everyone please give the Board a comment on this measure at
> the address below.
> 
> Gregor MacBeathain
> 
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:56:32 -0500
> > From: " Alasdair MacEogan "
> <alasdair at bmhanson.net>
> > Subject: [Ansteorra] Fw: [Announcements] Waterbearing
> proposal request
> >        for     comments
> > To: ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org,
> steppes at lists.ansteorra.org
> > Message-ID:
> <20080617165632.7725.qmail at server289.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > I would urge everyone that has concerns about this to
> please provide your comments and thoughts to the Directors 
> and Mr. Anderson regarding this proposal.
> >
> > Alasdair MacEogan
> >
> >>  -------Original Message-------
> >>  From: Patrick Anderson <president at sca.org>
> >>  Subject: [Announcements] Waterbearing proposal
> request for comments
> >>  Sent: 17 Jun '08 10:57
> >>
> >>  >From the President, Patrick Anderson:
> >>
> >>  Earlier this year, I was asked by several people
> in the waterbearing
> >>  community to examine the various laws of states
> and countries related to
> >>  waterbearing as an organized and official
> activity of the SCA, Inc.
> >>  Various states have informed officers of the SCA,
> Inc. that while our
> >>  activity does not directly violate the food codes
> or health regulations
> >>  of their states, if there were to be an outbreak
> of illness, the SCA,
> >>  Inc. could be held liable for that outbreak.
> Several health care
> >>  professionals and attorneys have reviewed this
> topic and agree with this
> >>  assessment.
> >>
> >>  I was asked to examine the best way to both
> ensure a safe fighting
> >>  environment for our fighters, and to comply with
> the various state and
> >>  country laws. The relevant laws vary from state
> by state, county by
> >>  county and country by country. I determined that
> the best way to do this
> >>  would be to make ?waterbearing? unofficial and
> unsanctioned by the SCA,
> >>  Inc. and proposed this change to the Board. The
> only other option would
> >>  be to regulate waterbearing, and to regulate it
> such that it follows the
> >>  various food safety codes of the various states
> and countries the SCA
> >>  participates in. This would be unwieldy,
> impractical and expensive for
> >>  the SCA to do. Further, it is likely that
> waterbearers would not be able
> >>  to continue to serve our fighters using any of
> the current methods of
> >>  waterbearing.
> >>
> >>  The proposal put before the membership for
> comment would stop
> >>  waterbearing by any SCA branch or other official
> group. The SCA would
> >>  not have an office of waterbearer at any level.
> Marshals would still be
> >>  permitted to allow waterbearers on the field, but
> any waterbearing must
> >>  not be done by any officially sanctioned or
> regulated groups of the SCA.
> >>  Households are welcome to provide water to
> fighters, as are unofficial
> >>  and unrecognized ?guilds?. This does not bar
> groups from putting out the
> >>  "serve yourself water coolers" at
> events. (In my Kingdom they are
> >>  usually the big orange cylinders.)
> >>
> >>  The Board and Corporate officers understand that
> many people have spent
> >>  time waterbearing within the official framework,
> and now hope that you
> >>  continue to volunteer unofficially. This proposal
> has been brought to
> >>  enable fighters to continue to have a
> waterbearing service provided to
> >>  them, without the extremely strict governance
> that official waterbearing
> >>  will require.
> >>
> >>  The actual text of the proposed rule is below.
> This rule has not yet
> >>  been approved by the Board, and is being sent out
> for comment here. The
> >>  Directors request comments from the membership
> regarding this proposed
> >>  revision no later than October 1st, 2008. Please
> send them to:
> >>  Corpora Revision
> >>  SCA Inc.
> >>  Box 360789
> >>  Milpitas CA, 95036
> >>  email: comments at sca.org
> >>
> >>  Thank you for commenting.
> >>
> >>  Patrick Anderson
> >>  President, Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc.
> >>
> >>  Proposed language to be added to Corpora:
> >>  The activity of providing beverages to combatants
> and spectators at SCA
> >>  Combat activities is not regulated, warranted,
> organized, controlled, or
> >>  sanctioned by the SCA, Inc. or any affiliate or
> subsidiary entity. All
> >>  warrants, authorizations, or other formal
> recognition of this activity
> >>  are by publication of this change revoked. This
> document does not either
> >>  address or restrict such volunteer activity or
> the methods by which it
> >>  occurs.
> >>  --
> >>  Patrick Anderson
> >>  President
> >>  Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc.
> >>  president at sca.org
> >>  952-412-4112
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