[Ansteorra] Water Bearing at Gulf Wars?

[Oscar Carmichael]

Greetings,

    I know that I just joined this list recently and have been reading what has been said recently on this list  about what is going on with waterbearing and I'll try to answer some of the questions asked.  First off I will only speak for my office and myself.  Any other officers or office I cannot and will not speak for those in charge of them.  The waterbearers office no longer falls under my office in Ansteorra, but I was active in the discussion about the office before and during the BoD's investigation and research of waterbearing in the society as a whole.

My Personal View:

    Several months back it was asked of the populace of the Known World to input their comments or concerns about the waterbearing issues and the BoD's proposal concerning this office.  Those that responded to this, I thank you for letting the board know what your view was on this.  The entire discussion about waterbearing is not just a SCA thing, the problem is that over the years mundane laws have been written to protect us as a whole, outside the SCA, from getting contaminated water or foods from entering our homes to the best of their ability.  States and local agencies then follow what Federal has said and are allowed to expand, but not take away from what Federal law states.  The easiest way I can break it down is in this order is: Federal/State/Regional/County/City  They one to the right can not supersede the ruling of those to the left and can only improve the standards.  If I have misunderstood this I'm sure there are those of us on this list that work Water/Waste Management that can correct this.

    Most kingdoms incorporate more then one state and some are not even within the USA.  So who's guidelines should we follow as a corporation.  Case in point, when we (Ansteorrians) go from Texas to Oklahoma (or vise versa) the laws change on the handling of water products and food products.  In some states more then one agency could be involved also when dealing with water or foods.  Some states don't have a clause for not for profit organizations either and they are required to the proper paperwork to run a "watering station".  So how does that effect us as a whole some people may think.  As a whole I think we all want to keep the SCA around so that we can keep having fun with this game that we do.  In short it means we go back to how we use to do waterbearing, as an individual giving water to your close friends, not as a warranted officer within the SCA.  One thing that some of us "old timers" sometimes forget is that the society as a whole did not always have waterbearers.  Groups putting out water so that anyone can use it wasn't a normal occurrence, we brought our own.  There will be no difference on how we do waterbearing today as we did prior to January 1st, we will still as individuals will give our friends water if they wish for it.  It just means that the "office" is not recognized by the SCA or kingdoms we play or live in.  It doesn't mean we can't give water or food to anyone that doesn't not want it.  As bad as this may sound, someone commented to me, before knowing who I was, that the closing of the waterbearing office was the closing of their Pelican project.  I am not a Pelican, but from what I know as a Protégée, it's not just one act that will make one noticed by ones peers or populace as a whole to be considered for any form of awards.

Now to answer as the Kingdom Chirurgeon on specific comments/questions that I have seen since joining the list:

Giertrud Gyldenstierne commented:
This confuses me so.  Good Samaritan laws... work when the person is already
injured or sick.  So, preventing the tragedy is NOT allowed while remedying
it is?  Seems pretty stupid.

    Good Sam law covers medical treatment of a/an individual(s), not the prevention of illness or injury of any said individual(s).  What Morgan said is correct too, EMT's, Paramedics, Nurses, and Doctors (to name a few) are certified by a state agency by extensive testing and schooling.  These individuals are held at certain standards and are expected to perform at those standards.

 Pooky commented:
It is undeniably necessary for there to be people who are not actively
engaged in fighting to be supplying water to those who are in 95+
degree Ansteorran heat, heavy heat absorbent metal, expending energy,
fending off opportunities to be literally physically wounded.
If people are not there to be on immediate hand to squirt the water in
the visor our friends, someone will heat stroke and die.
Sure we can say let them fight and hydrate (or not) at their own risk
that way the Society be less culpable, but here is where my lack of
modern understanding comes to query, is Society even more at legal
risk for permitting an activity and purposely not providing a crucial
safety feature like hydration when the cause and effect is so clear
cut?

Lets hope this isn't first addressed in a wrongful death suit. Maybe a
waiver Pontius Pilot's the SCA completely, we'll see....

Mundanely I'm an olfactorial sensing neanderthal by lineage, and when
it smells like the responsibility for peoples safety is being
abdicated I feel disappointed and sad. Then I manifest ways to take
the responsibility upon myself.

    As bad as this is about to sound, we seem to have been watering ourselves quite well prior to the formation of the waterbearers as an official office of the SCA.  Though this is a legal question, I don't see someone suing us for them not stopping their participation in a sporting activity and drinking water.  Otherwise every person that I have treated for heat problems could have sued all the waterbearers or anyone that had handled the water at an event or war that I have attended prior to the BoD decision.  We as individuals are responsible for ourselves when we became adults.  Children are a different area and fall under the care of a parent or legal guardian.  With new fighters we educate them just like we educate those new to the SCA in Ansteorra as we have done in the past.  As bad as this may sound to some people, we as individuals need to be responsible for ourselves, most of us are lucky to have friends that care about us and will come up behind us and whack us in the head when we do something stupid.

Those this is an older post,
Vicki Marsh commented:
1) Can children now go onto the list field to serve water to fighters? After all, no authorizations are required any more.

The waterbearing requires no authorization, being on the list field does.  This falls under the marshals office, but under the kingdom participants handbook (Aug 2008) I quote (cut/pasted): 
Minors aged 14 - 17 may enter the listfield between Adult Combat Related Activities to perform services such as Waterbearing and Heralding.

2) Can interested parties now form their own Guild of Waterbearers (or the H  Duo/ Water Mafia / Ice Pirates)?

Yes, anyone can form their own guild in the SCA.

3) If no volunteers are working to supply, disinfect, and maintain the water supply and equipment for the fighters-at-large, then is everyone solely responsible for recruiting their own personal waterbearers?

This has never really changed until several of us in the past made a point to assign someone to do this prior to an event.  Sometimes it came down to who showed up at an event and would do this, no different then within the chirurgeonate office on asking someone to CiC and event.  An autocrat or group can still appoint someone to take care of waterbearing supplies, just as they find others to fill people to fill staff positions at the event.

4) Can this now fall under the pervue of the Chirurgeonate?

The waterbearers office did fall under the prevue of the chirurgeonate office in Ansteorra.  In some kingdoms it fell under the Marshal's office and in others it fell under the Army of "Insert Kingdom Name".  But to answer your question, no, the chirurgeonate office is an official office in the SCA and we would be back to where we were before the BoD ruling.

5) Or is this a precursor to the Society-wide demise of the Chirurgeonate, as well?

No, latest I have heard there is no talks, beyond maybe individuals that have been saying it for years so far, of the chirurgeonate office being closed or disbanded.

6) Can each group still own waterbearing equipment and provide supplies at events?

Yes, most groups are putting it under hospitality name for putting it into their event budget.

7) Are YOU willing to drink from an unknown water supply, that may or may not be properly disinfected or cared for?

No, but if I am going to a site that I am unfamiliar with I usually carry my own water with me to the site.

Now since this was posted publicly to this list, I'm going to answer it publicly.

Alasdair commented:
I have seen nothing to indicate that this is the direction, but I am not in the loop.  Heck I can never seem to get a good answer from anyone as to whether or not I am still warranted.  I sent in my certs several times and have inquired of kingdom and never can seem to get an official answer.  That is the big reason I have not been able to work as a chirurgeon at events.
    To answer your question, yes your on the roster.  If you had contacted me or even spoke with me even at this last Red Tape I could have answered your question and you would have been "in the loop" concerning this.  The last time I spoke with you we didn't have your certifications up to date and I explained to you that per Society and Kingdom, I must have a copy of your certifications, picture id, and a blue membership card to be kept by my Admin Deputy for filing.  I will not add someone to the warrant list without this condition being met, no matter who you are.  I will not put my name or ask their majesties to do the same on something that I can not produce to my boss (Society Chirurgeon). At anytime the Society Chirurgeon can ask for our warrant list and a copy of our paperwork kept on those warranted and I have to produce it to them.  The chirurgeons are considered to be an officer of the society "at large" and we must keep up our paperwork as much as any other officer in the kingdom or society of those that we warrant.  At Red Tape/Round Table we have the chirurgeons meeting, this is where I update anyone on new info that was or hasn't been posted to the Blackstar and then open up the floor for anyone to ask questions or comment on what was discussed.

    Sorry for the rainbow colors from all of this above and for making this such a long post.  I have wanted to answer these questions to try and help alleviate some of the confusion behind the waterbearing and hope that I haven't done the opposite of what I have set out to do.  I rarely see any email sent to me with questions about or concerning my office other then people asking how to join the chirurgeonate.  Please don't feel that I can not be contacted about any concerns about this matter or my office, this is what I'm here for as one of your GOofS.  Sometimes it may take me sometime to get back with an email, so if it you feel that you need an answer right away, please call me, my information is posted in the Blackstar for that purpose.  If you want to speak with me in person, please speak to me at an event when I'm not busy (most events I work as a chirurgeon), and if I am busy I will attempt to make the time to talk with you as soon as possible.

In Service,
HL Robert Carmichael
Kingdom Chirurgeon