[Ansteorra] Marching rank (was: Ok...so I'm a dummy)

[Diane Rudin]

Yep, that's wrong, and, as I said, is the result of incorrectly labelling 
the awards & orders abbreviations list as the "Order of March".
I'll look into who I need to contact about getting that corrected, Boss.

--Serena



----- Original Message ----
> From: Jennifer Smith <jds at randomgang.com>
> To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists..ansteorra.org>
> Sent: Sun, November 29, 2009 3:33:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Ok...so I'm a dummy
> 
> Ah, and so -- I was indeed looking at the Order of March (as seen at
> http://heraldry.ansteorra.org/OP/), which starts out:
> 
> "A gentle’s place in the march is determined by the rank and the date
> of rank.  The gentle with the lowest rank number enters before those
> with higher rank numbers.  If two gentles have the same rank number,
> the one that has held that rank longer enters first.  For visiting
> Crowns and Barons/Baronesses in Fief, the date of the group’s
> elevation is used."
> 
> and then proceeds to list rank from 0 to 21.  On the Order of
> Precedence page (http://heraldry.ansteorra.org/OP/op-roll.php), it
> likewise lists people all the way through rank 21. Or rather, rank
> 99...
> 
> -Emma
> 
> 
> On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Diane Rudin wrote:
> > Emma de Fetherstan wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >> The term you're looking for is "not recorded in the OP". :)
> >> Non-armigerous awards are defined as awards that do not carry an
> >> inherent award of arms with them. They may or may not carry precedence
> >> and may or may not be recorded in the OP, depending on the award.
> >>
> >> For example, the Sable Falcon is a non-armigerous award that is
> >> recorded in the OP, and that carries a precedence lower than an Award
> >> of Arms, but higher than the now-closed Principality of Ansteorra
> >> award "Order of the Madonnas of Ansteorra".
> >
> > While I am not fond of the idea of correcting my heraldic boss, the Star
> > Principal Herald, I feel it is my duty at this point so to do:
> >
> > This is a common misconception.  None of the Ansteorran non-armigerous
> > awards (Sable Falcon, Rising Star, Queen's Rapier, etc.) carry any
> > precedence, per their respective constitutions.  Only those titles, awards,
> > and orders which have database codes of 01-19 carry precedence, e.g.,
> > march in a March of Precedence. This is clear in the OP printed in 1987,
> > with the Order of March signed by the then-Crown and Star Principal
> > Herald.  All awards and orders coded 20 or higher are simply there for what
> > one can best describe as "bookkeeping purposes"; they are all equally
> > unranked and without precedence.  The only reason they have different
> > numbers is for classification purposes, so we can tell at a quick glance which
> > non-armigerous awards are kingdom, principality, foreign, etc.
> >
> > This misconception derives from the long-ago decision to call the database
> > of Ansteorran awards the "Order of Precedence", even though said database
> > includes kingdom awards that carry no precedence, and the much more recent,
> > unfortunate conflation of the listing of the award abbreviations and the
> > Order of March.
> >
> > Admittedly, a full March of Precedence, of all armigerous attendees at an 
> event,
> > hasn't taken place in this kingdom in at least twenty years, so I can see how
> > newer members would be confused about this.
> >
> > --Serena Lascelles, Blanc Gryffon Herald
> > twice Zodiacus Herald
> > keeper of obscure and obsolete precedence information (along with Robin)