[Ansteorra] Ok...so I'm a dummy

[Jennifer Smith]

Ah, and so -- I was indeed looking at the Order of March (as seen at
http://heraldry.ansteorra.org/OP/), which starts out:

"A gentle’s place in the march is determined by the rank and the date
of rank.  The gentle with the lowest rank number enters before those
with higher rank numbers.  If two gentles have the same rank number,
the one that has held that rank longer enters first.  For visiting
Crowns and Barons/Baronesses in Fief, the date of the group’s
elevation is used."

and then proceeds to list rank from 0 to 21.  On the Order of
Precedence page (http://heraldry.ansteorra.org/OP/op-roll.php), it
likewise lists people all the way through rank 21. Or rather, rank
99...

-Emma


On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Diane Rudin <serena1570 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Emma de Fetherstan wrote:
>
>
>
>> The term you're looking for is "not recorded in the OP". :)
>> Non-armigerous awards are defined as awards that do not carry an
>> inherent award of arms with them. They may or may not carry precedence
>> and may or may not be recorded in the OP, depending on the award.
>>
>> For example, the Sable Falcon is a non-armigerous award that is
>> recorded in the OP, and that carries a precedence lower than an Award
>> of Arms, but higher than the now-closed Principality of Ansteorra
>> award "Order of the Madonnas of Ansteorra".
>
> While I am not fond of the idea of correcting my heraldic boss, the Star
> Principal Herald, I feel it is my duty at this point so to do:
>
> This is a common misconception.  None of the Ansteorran non-armigerous
> awards (Sable Falcon, Rising Star, Queen's Rapier, etc.) carry any
> precedence, per their respective constitutions.  Only those titles, awards,
> and orders which have database codes of 01-19 carry precedence, e.g.,
> march in a March of Precedence. This is clear in the OP printed in 1987,
> with the Order of March signed by the then-Crown and Star Principal
> Herald.  All awards and orders coded 20 or higher are simply there for what
> one can best describe as "bookkeeping purposes"; they are all equally
> unranked and without precedence.  The only reason they have different
> numbers is for classification purposes, so we can tell at a quick glance which
> non-armigerous awards are kingdom, principality, foreign, etc.
>
> This misconception derives from the long-ago decision to call the database
> of Ansteorran awards the "Order of Precedence", even though said database
> includes kingdom awards that carry no precedence, and the much more recent,
> unfortunate conflation of the listing of the award abbreviations and the
> Order of March.
>
> Admittedly, a full March of Precedence, of all armigerous attendees at an event,
> hasn't taken place in this kingdom in at least twenty years, so I can see how
> newer members would be confused about this.
>
> --Serena Lascelles, Blanc Gryffon Herald
> twice Zodiacus Herald
> keeper of obscure and obsolete precedence information (along with Robin)
>
>
>
>
>
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