[Ansteorra] honor and animals

[Casey Weed]

Ismet,

I was answering those who had suggested that certain specific animals
actually possessed this trait, not Her Grace.  Dogs were mentioned, as were
horses of both sexes.

I agree that medieval minds projected symbolism on animals based on
physicality.  This is not, however, one of those instances.  Honor is
usually represented by a woman in art.  If I were doing the banner project
Her Grace is speaking of I would use a woman as the symbol rather than an
animal.

Ritter Dieterich





On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Hugh & Belinda Niewoehner <
burgborrendohl at valornet.com> wrote:

> Ritter Dieterich Kempenich von Eltz:
>
>  Animals do not have a sense of honor; you are confusing, among other
>> traits,
>> loyalty with honor.
>>
>
> Sir,
>
> I do not think that Her Grace is trying to say that any animal has a sense
> of honor.  Medieval mind sets, however, used symbolism of certain traits or
> behaviors of animals to represent virtues and vices of humans.  (At the risk
> of starting another tread, I don't make assumptions as to what emotions,
> etc. animals have since I can not communicate with them in their language.
>  I've seen cats appear to be embarrassed which means they have some form of
> self esteem.  I've seen animals grieve, show affection, etc. Being a fan of
> Ender's Game, I try not to judge other species quickly).
>
> But back to the point of this discussion, if you read my previous post, the
> people of the Middle Ages would see a certain behavior or trait in an animal
> as a characteristic of a human's virtue.
>
> From the same source:
>
> A peculiarity of the wolf is that it cannot turn its head, because there is
> no joint in its neck, but must turn its whole body
> when it wishes to look behind, thus symbolizing people stiff-necked and
> stubborn in sin.
>
> That does not mean wolves are stiff necked and stubborn--mine was a
> sweetie, but she could not just look over her back, but had to turn at least
> her front half around to see behind her.
> Another example:
>
> The cock typifies both vigilance and liberality, because it is always on
> the watch, and when
> it finds anything, it does not eat it, but calls the hens together and
> divides it among them.
>
> I think this is an interesting study and might make people think about what
> they choose for their arms.  What we think of as a marvelous creature to
> represent us might not have the same meaning to the Medieval mind.
>
> Thanks Your Grace Willow for bringing it up.
>
> Ismet
>
>
>
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