[Ansteorra] honor and animals

[Hugh & Belinda Niewoehner]

Thank you both Daniel and Emma.  You have answered some of my questions 
about heraldry of which I am sadly very ignorant.  Before 1394 and the 
accepted authority of the "king of arms" how were arms assigned/chosen?  
What are the earliest records?

Also since the bestiaries were consulted by the early heralds I assume 
that they did try to assign 'meanings' to charges in the beginning?  Or 
am I misunderstanding again?

thanks,

Ismet


Jennifer Smith wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Tim McDaniel <tmcd at panix.com> wrote:
>   
>> Warning!  You're about to get heraldry goo all over you.
>>
>> On Fri, 16 Apr 2010, Hugh & Belinda Niewoehner
>> <burgborrendohl at valornet.com> wrote:
>>     
>>> As to symbols of honor in general I do not know how accurate this
>>> site is about Heraldry (Perhaps a herald will comment) but they say
>>> 'honor' in heraldry was represented by
>>>       
>> The needle on my bogometer wrapped around the post just reading that
>> far.
>>
>> If any page assigns "meanings" to heraldic tinctures or charges in
>> general, you know that it's bogus, and furthermore you should take
>> anything they say about heraldry with a small boulder of salt.
>>     
>
> What Daniel wrote further is very well said.
>
> An anecdote I am particularly fond of is found in _The Heraldic
> Imagination_ by Rodney Dennys. In a chapter discussing so-called
> heraldic symbolism, he writes:
>
> "The early heralds would have searched the bestiaries for information
> on the beasts and birds of the world. Bado Aureo was clearly
> influenced by them in describing, in his _Tractatus de Armis_, the
> various beasts, birds and fishes which are borne in arms. The
> 'sweetness of music with melodius notes', which the Swan was said to
> pour forth, is echoed by Bado Aureo who tells us that singers, when
> dubbed knights or otherwise raised to eminence, ought to bear a Swan
> in their arms. He goes on to say that he had, nevertheless, seen
> unmusical men bearing Swans in their arms, and he therefore asked a
> 'King of the Heraulds why he assigned to such men to bere swannes in
> armys, which were no syngers'. The king of arms replied that one
> reason could be that 'they wre passing faire men', and another that
> 'they had longe nekkes'. It is interesting that by 1394 it was
> apparently accepted in English Court circles that a king of arms was
> the appropriate authority for designing and assigning arms." [quotes
> from Bodlein Library MS. LAud. Misc 733, f. 9: a late 15th century
> English translation of John de Badu Aureo's _Tractatus de Armis_,
> itself written in 1394 or 1395.]
>
> Further discussion of his treatise in the book seems to show that he
> was a bit of a wackjob, but I thought his Swan anecdote quite amusing
> and very telling.
>
> -Emma
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